If your material gets wet

[Fliz]

Have you ever had a project rained on and your cables got wet? First, I was a a job that flooded and the romex got wet. Romex shouldn't get wet, that paper absorbs the water up into the cable and stays there. A proximity tester will not read a live cable and you use a proximity tester at your peril.

What about MC Cable? I've seen it get wet and nothing happens.

My point though, is aside from personal observation, if you have a cable get wet during shipping or storage or dumb handling, and you install it in a wall, what is the actual danger there? This is not a rhetorical question, I'm really curious about what it is that would be wrong, beside the fact that it just sounds abhorrent. Especially considering that the conductors themselves may be THHN/THWN?

 

[user 100]

Have you ever had a project rained on and your cables got wet? First, I was a a job that flooded and the romex got wet. Romex shouldn't get wet, that paper absorbs the water up into the cable and stays there. A proximity tester will not read a live cable and you use a proximity tester at your peril.

What about MC Cable? I've seen it get wet and nothing happens.

My point though, is aside from personal observation, if you have a cable get wet during shipping or storage or dumb handling, and you install it in a wall, what is the actual danger there? This is not a rhetorical question, I'm really curious about what it is that would be wrong, beside the fact that it just sounds abhorrent. Especially considering that the conductors themselves may be THHN/THWN?

I guess that as far as worrying about the cable, that nm (at least open one end of it) would have to be literally submerged for a while before, imo, there would be any realistic concerns about it's integrity due to water wicking up the liner.

If the NM gets a few raindrops on it, guy spills his coffee on it- no big deal.

 

[ActionDave]

This topic has come up before and I think the official position of the wire companies is that you are not supposed to use it. My opinion is there is little to worry about.

How many rolls of romex have been left in the back of pick ups, rained on, and then installed? Gotta be in the thousands.

 

[JFletcher]

I was always told that we couldnt rough in a building until it was dryed in. Dunno if that's a code issue or common sense... probably both.

Water in Romex... I'm thinking corroded terminations and mold could be potential problems. Water reacts with the paper over time and ???, creates some kind of conductive/corrosive goop that wreaks havoc on terminations maybe?

" Especially considering that the conductors themselves may be THHN/THWN?"

THWN is wet located anyway.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I was always told that we couldnt rough in a building until it was dryed in. Dunno if that's a code issue or common sense... probably both.

Water in Romex... I'm thinking corroded terminations and mold could be potential problems. Water reacts with the paper over time and ???, creates some kind of conductive/corrosive goop that wreaks havoc on terminations maybe?

" Especially considering that the conductors themselves may be THHN/THWN?"

THWN is wet located anyway.

NM does not have THWN or THHN, at least they don't list it that way.

 

[infinity]

Unless the cable is submerged in water I wouldn't worry about it. The NEC even considers a dry location one that may be subject to dampness or wetness during construction to still be a dry location.

Location, Dry. A location not normally subject to damp-
ness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be tem-
porarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a
building under construction.

 

[iwire]

Unless the cable is submerged in water I wouldn't worry about it. The NEC even considers a dry location one that may be subject to dampness or wetness during construction to still be a dry location.

I don't think it is that simple and our inspectors will not let us install dry location products in buildings that are not yet dry.

110.11 Deteriorating Agents. Unless identified for use in
the operating environment, no conductors or equipment
shall be located in damp or wet locations; where exposed to
gases, fumes, vapors, liquids, or other agents that have a
deteriorating effect on the conductors or equipment; or
where exposed to excessive temperatures.
Informational Note No. 1: See 300.6 for protection against
corrosion.

Informational Note No. 2: Some cleaning and lubricating
compounds can cause severe deterioration of many plastic
materials used for insulating and structural applications in
equipment.

Equipment not identified for outdoor use and equipment
identified only for indoor use, such as “dry locations,” “indoor
use only,” “damp locations,” or enclosure Types 1, 2,
5, 12, 12K, and/or 13, shall be protected against damage
from the weather during construction.

 

[infinity]

I don't think it is that simple and our inspectors will not let us install dry location products in buildings that are not yet dry.

If you work in high rise construction it's not possible to wait for the entire building to be dry before installing cables.

 

[iwire]

If you work in high rise construction it's not possible to wait for the entire building to be dry before installing cables.

Well for sure but they don't let you install dry location products in areas that will get wet do they? Hurricanes and other odd events excluded.

Just as one area of a big box store we may do is dry (enough) while other areas are not.

 

[infinity]

Well for sure but they don't let you install dry location products in areas that will get wet do they? Hurricanes and other odd events excluded.

Just as one area of a big box store we may do is dry (enough) while other areas are not.

No dry location cables get installed in dry locations but by definition in Article 100 a dry location can expected to have some degree of moisture during construction from normal events such as rain. If we had to wait for the entire building to be a dry location before installing cables it would take an extra several years to build a 50 story building.

 

[iwire]

No dry location cables get installed in dry locations but by definition in Article 100 a dry location can expected to have some degree of moisture during construction from normal events such as rain.

For sure, that is what the definition says.

I am as sure as that as I am sure that 110.11 says dry location equipment shall be protected against damage from the weather during construction.

 

[GoldDigger]

For sure, that is what the definition says.

I am as sure as that as I am sure that 110.11 says dry location equipment shall be protected against damage from the weather during construction.

:thumbs up:
The location can be temporarily damp or wet as long as you protect the conductors as necessary.
There may be arguments about whether wiring inside conduit in a temporarily wet area is or is not protected.
I will not participate in those arguments. :angel:

 

[kenman215]

If you work in high rise construction it's not possible to wait for the entire building to be dry before installing cables.

Not exactly a high rise, the job I'm running now has four stories of stick framed residential units, which will be wired with Romex. AHJ will not allow us to run wire until it is roofed and windows are in, giving us 5 months from the beginning of rough in to CO on 115 units with 277 beds and baths, full kitchens in each, and about 1500 fire alarm devices. I agree with you, just wish my inspector felt the same...

 

[Smart $]

:thumbsup:
The location can be temporarily damp or wet as long as you protect the conductors as necessary.
There may be arguments about whether wiring inside conduit in a temporarily wet area is or is not protected.
I will not participate in those arguments. :angel:

You just did.
:slaphead:

 

[infinity]

Not exactly a high rise, the job I'm running now has four stories of stick framed residential units, which will be wired with Romex. AHJ will not allow us to run wire until it is roofed and windows are in, giving us 5 months from the beginning of rough in to CO on 115 units with 277 beds and baths, full kitchens in each, and about 1500 fire alarm devices. I agree with you, just wish my inspector felt the same...

Sounds pretty silly to me. My current project took almost two years to go from foundation to topping out. During that time the interiors were being constructed about 5-10 floors below the upper decks, typically with no windows/curtain walls in place and definitely no roof. An insignificant infiltration of water during bad weather certainly isn't going to compromise the longevity of the cables we're using.

Certainly water pouring into switchgear or panels or other equipment would be a different issue. Look at this temp panel that was below an open sleeve that the GC failed to adequately seal. The second photo is the panel that was there before this one. GC was 0-2 in the sealing department. The second one was put out by the fire department :roll:

 

[kenman215]

Sounds pretty silly to me. My current project took almost two years to go from foundation to topping out. During that time the interiors were being constructed about 5-10 floors below the upper decks, typically with no windows/curtain walls in place and definitely no roof. An insignificant infiltration of water during bad weather certainly isn't going to compromise the longevity of the cables we're using.

Certainly water pouring into switchgear or panels or other equipment would be a different issue. Look at this temp panel that was below an open sleeve that the GC failed to adequately seal. The second photo is the panel that was there before this one. GC was 0-2 in the sealing department. The second one was put out by the fire department :roll:

That's not good...hmy:

 

[GoldDigger]

The image links are not working for me. URL too long?

 

[Smart $]

.... URL too long?

Very possible to quite likely... for you. They are long but they work for me.

 

[jusme123]

Sounds pretty silly to me. My current project took almost two years to go from foundation to topping out. During that time the interiors were being constructed about 5-10 floors below the upper decks, typically with no windows/curtain walls in place and definitely no roof. An insignificant infiltration of water during bad weather certainly isn't going to compromise the longevity of the cables we're using.

Certainly water pouring into switchgear or panels or other equipment would be a different issue. Look at this temp panel that was below an open sleeve that the GC failed to adequately seal. The second photo is the panel that was there before this one. GC was 0-2 in the sealing department. The second one was put out by the fire department :roll:

cant see pics

 

[mgookin]

no pics
tried on 3 different browsers.