Improve the "quality" of residence's ground question?

[eir]

• Let's begin with the #6 bare copper wire from the 200 amp breaker box that runs 20 feet across the basement to an iron water-supply pipe.
• The location where the copper wire connects to the iron pipe is an additional 15 feet from where the water supply enters the home through the brick foundation basement wall.

Ok, even though it should be connected 5 feet from the water line's entrance to the home, here's my question:

Will the "quality" of the ground improve by my moving the bare wire closer (i.e. within 5 feet) of where the water supply pipe enters the home through the foundation. By "quality" I mean will I have a more efficient, more effective ground being supplied to the residence's electrical system, OR does moving the wire/pipe attachement closer to the entry point not typically make any difference in this regard?

Thank you very much for your opinions!! :?

 

[PetrosA]

6 AWG is not the correct size for the water pipe connection. The five foot rule is more about safety than "quality" (whatever you have in mind there...).

Why does it seem like this thread is somehow going to relate to audio equipment?

 

[starbolin]

Unless he is running a bootleg kilowatt TV station he would never see the difference. As far as I know connecting to the water supply near the entrance is a conductor protection issue and not a performance issue.

 

[PetrosA]

Unless he is running a bootleg kilowatt TV station he would never see the difference. As far as I know connecting to the water supply near the entrance is a conductor protection issue and not a performance issue.

I guess you haven't seen these:

http://www.amazon.com/Wattgate-381-AG-Duplex-Receptacle/dp/B000930W4M

:slaphead:

There are people out there willing to spend thousands of dollars to get peak performance from a sound system, which often costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin with.

 

[jumper]

Unless he is running a bootleg kilowatt TV station he would never see the difference. As far as I know connecting to the water supply near the entrance is a conductor protection issue and not a performance issue.

Actually, it has to do with continuity of the GES. Plastic piping is often spliced into a metallic system, so the idea is to connect within 5' of the entrance to ensure a metallic path to the electrode in the earth.

PS. That is also why the water pipe is supplemented with additional electrode(s).

 

[Pharon]

I guess you haven't seen these:

http://www.amazon.com/Wattgate-381-AG-Duplex-Receptacle/dp/B000930W4M

:slaphead:

There are people out there willing to spend thousands of dollars to get peak performance from a sound system, which often costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin with.

The first customer review is priceless:

156 of 177 people found the following review helpful
Great item, but please be careful with it.
By J. Jarzab on October 26, 2009

I received my Wattgate 381 Audio Grade Duplex Socket by Wattgate in the mail yesterday. Well, I shouldn't say "in" the mail because when I went to my porch to get the package, the package was just floating there. It was about 2 or 3 feet off the ground. I grabbed the delivery man before he left (as he was right down the street) and he said, and I quote "I don't want any trouble, just take your package and leave me alone".

Not only was that odd, but when I took it inside, I couldn't put it down on the table. The package would just float. Very strange indeed. I go to open the package and I find there is nothing inside. Now I am angry. This is supposed to be the best receptacle on the market and all I got was a floating box. Inside there is a piece of paper. "Place a drop of water in the box".

As I have nothing else to do, I add a drop of water to the bottom of the box and to my surprise the receptacle began to re-assemble itself. I should have known. Nano-machine technology. Apparently this item was assembled using nano machines and shipped with nano machines. Normal box packaging would damage the sensitive audio components. I should have known.

Unfortunately one of the machines went haywire, escaped the box and ate my television. I am not happy about it. However, I did install the socket after throwing the box in the yard (the machines die after being outside for 20 minutes). I have never, in my life heard audio like this. I finally understood Mozart, Beethoven and Nirvana. I understand music on a whole new level. I have become...a music God. I only drink Tuscan Whole Milk. I am one.

 

[PetrosA]

The first customer review is priceless:

That's great! Just think how much better it would sound if he also got a few of these 7 AWG power cords with 15A gold-plated plugs on them!

http://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-..._sim_hi_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1YPJT2XFDYVH4TPPSA1W

And how 'bout this $15,000 speaker cable?

http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Te...d=1413301761&sr=1-1&keywords=hifi+power+cable

Or this $13,500 HDMI cable?

http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Di...m_sbs_e_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0Y3HY41XHCQH8TW1N6FR

Paradise awaits.

 

[iceworm]

... There are people out there willing to spend thousands of dollars to get peak performance from a sound system, which often costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin with.

Something I've always wondered:

If grounding, AC buzz, other unfathomable noise gremlins are an issue, why don't they use a double conversion DC power supply, battery backup, supplying ungrounded DC - with ground detect monitors?

ice

 

[rlundsrud]

Something I've always wondered:

If grounding, AC buzz, other unfathomable noise gremlins are an issue, why don't they use a double conversion DC power supply, battery backup, supplying ungrounded DC - with ground detect monitors?

ice

All they need to do is see their doctor regularly and take the meds he prescribes.

 

[charlie b]

Plastic piping is often spliced into a metallic system, so the idea is to connect within 5' of the entrance to ensure a metallic path to the electrode in the earth.

The way I look at is this: If a plumber does come to the house and replaces some metallic piping with plastic piping, and if the ground wire is connected some distance away from the place the water pipe enters the house, then the plumber is unlikely to be aware that the pipe is being used for an electrical purpose. We put the connection within 5 feet of the wall so that a plumber is more likely to notice that the connection exists.

Now, the question of whether the plumber will alter his intended installation, after having seen the electrical connection within 5 feet of the wall, is another matter. :happyyes:

 

[charlie b]

I forgot to add that the location of the connection has nothing to do with the way it will perform, assuming that the pipe is metal all the way into the dirt.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I forgot to add that the location of the connection has nothing to do with the way it will perform, assuming that the pipe is metal all the way into the dirt.

In fact the pipe, if copper, is probably a much lower impedance path than the wire that will be run to make the connection within 5' of the water pipe's point of entry.

 

[jxofaltrds]

• Let's begin with the #6 bare copper wire from the 200 amp breaker box that runs 20 feet across the basement to an iron water-supply pipe.
• The location where the copper wire connects to the iron pipe is an additional 15 feet from where the water supply enters the home through the brick foundation basement wall.

Ok, even though it should be connected 5 feet from the water line's entrance to the home, here's my question:

Will the "quality" of the ground improve by my moving the bare wire closer (i.e. within 5 feet) of where the water supply pipe enters the home through the foundation. By "quality" I mean will I have a more efficient, more effective ground being supplied to the residence's electrical system, OR does moving the wire/pipe attachement closer to the entry point not typically make any difference in this regard?

Thank you very much for your opinions!! :?

NO.

 

[kwired]

• Let's begin with the #6 bare copper wire from the 200 amp breaker box that runs 20 feet across the basement to an iron water-supply pipe.
• The location where the copper wire connects to the iron pipe is an additional 15 feet from where the water supply enters the home through the brick foundation basement wall.

Ok, even though it should be connected 5 feet from the water line's entrance to the home, here's my question:

Will the "quality" of the ground improve by my moving the bare wire closer (i.e. within 5 feet) of where the water supply pipe enters the home through the foundation. By "quality" I mean will I have a more efficient, more effective ground being supplied to the residence's electrical system, OR does moving the wire/pipe attachement closer to the entry point not typically make any difference in this regard?

Thank you very much for your opinions!! :?

Size of conductor required depends on size of service entrance conductors and the corresponding values in table 250.66. However minimum size supply conductors required for a 200 amp service disconnect should mean you need at least a 4 AWG copper grounding electrode at a minimum.

Depending on age of this install the attachment location may have been compliant at the time of it's installation. The 5 foot from point of entry rule came about around 1993 or 1996 IIRC.

The quality of the electrode will primarily be dependent on conditions of the pipe that is buried in the earth as long as there is no insulating fittings between the point of attachment and the entry into earth. If you have a corroded or bad fitting - that is an issue but you probably also have a water leak that is an even bigger issue.

 

[cuba_pete]

AHA!

AHA!

Something I've always wondered:

If grounding, AC buzz, other unfathomable noise gremlins are an issue, why don't they use a double conversion DC power supply, battery backup, supplying ungrounded DC - with ground detect monitors?

ice

Some of us do...

The gov't calls it AN/FQQ-11(V)/AN/FQA-12(V)

 

[cuba_pete]

Hilarious!

Hilarious!

I had no idea there were so many snake oil products available on Amazon! OMG! Real live Stetzerizer Filters, Aulterra EMF filters, oh my!

I haven't fully delved into the gold, silver plated, and "clippings of Christ's fingernails" -plated products. Those reviews are hilarious!

People actually buy this stuff, thinking that electrical theory is pure magic...sad :weeping:

 

[K8MHZ]

People actually buy this stuff, thinking that electrical theory is pure magic...sad :weeping:

Lucky for us, it's really applied magic. :happyyes:

 

[infinity]

• Let's begin with the #6 bare copper wire from the 200 amp breaker box that runs 20 feet across the basement to an iron water-supply pipe.
• The location where the copper wire connects to the iron pipe is an additional 15 feet from where the water supply enters the home through the brick foundation basement wall.

Ok, even though it should be connected 5 feet from the water line's entrance to the home, here's my question:

Will the "quality" of the ground improve by my moving the bare wire closer (i.e. within 5 feet) of where the water supply pipe enters the home through the foundation. By "quality" I mean will I have a more efficient, more effective ground being supplied to the residence's electrical system, OR does moving the wire/pipe attachement closer to the entry point not typically make any difference in this regard?

Thank you very much for your opinions!! :?

How do you define the "quality" of the ground? For the home's electrical system the main bonding jumper will provide a connection between the EGC's and the system neutral that's the one that really matters.

 

[mbrooke]

Grounding does absolutely nothing. Ive heard of people driving 60 ground rods for various reasons... its not going to solve anything.

 

[mbrooke]

I had no idea there were so many snake oil products available on Amazon! OMG! Real live Stetzerizer Filters, Aulterra EMF filters, oh my!

I haven't fully delved into the gold, silver plated, and "clippings of Christ's fingernails" -plated products. Those reviews are hilarious!

People actually buy this stuff, thinking that electrical theory is pure magic...sad :weeping:

Yup, you can say that again: