How it is an 'inconvenience' for the electrician to be courteous and reset the GFCI instead of making the inspector trip it, walk to it, reset it, then walk to the next protected receptacle, test it, walk back to the GFCI, reset it, walk to the next protected receptacle, test it, walk back to the GFCI, reset it, walk to the next protected receptacle, test it, walk back to the GFCI, reset it, walk to the next protected receptacle, test it, walk back to the GFCI, reset it, .....?
Individual GFCIs in bathrooms
- Thread starter Electromatic
- Start date
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How it is an 'inconvenience' for the electrician to be courteous and reset the GFCI instead of making the inspector trip it, walk to it, reset it, then walk to the next protected receptacle, test it, walk back to the GFCI, reset it, walk to the next protected receptacle, test it, walk back to the GFCI, reset it, walk to the next protected receptacle, test it, walk back to the GFCI, reset it, walk to the next protected receptacle, test it, walk back to the GFCI, reset it, .....?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I didn't say it was, I said it is unfair for an EI to scrutinize an installation that is code compliant just because there is some inconvenience for him to inspect it. Lets go to a different installation - EI doesn't want to climb 150 feet of ladders to inspect that motor on top of grain elevator - why is that my problem? Not like there is no way for him to access it, so he is not getting a crane, man lift, helicopter ride, etc. just for him to inspect. Bigger facilities maybe have a permanent elevator for personnel to use - often still only goes so far and still some climbing to get to the top of the leg though. So far I haven't had a single one ever climb such a structure, I probably could get away with all sorts of things up there, but then I still jeopardize my liability if I do so and chances are it is done to code or to the extent of some minor things that are commonly overlooked in nearly all instances.
ramsy
NoFixNoPay Electric
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
The forum consensus so far does not appear experienced with inspectors who look for "GFCI Protected" stickers on downstream plugs, or who won't encourage unqualified persons with the code NFPA-70 406.4(D)(3) Exception.
If separate electrical permits are typically pulled by a license, inspectors may dutifully red tag any electrical without noting a code violation. Red tag happens with such electrical, especially during Owner-Builder permits (DIY construction).
Senior members of this forum are also known to describe their 200 Amp service upgrades without a POCO meter spot, oblivious to overfusing existing 100 Amp wire. Some of them are licensed contractors that don't like getting dirty, and hire unqualified persons as panel flippers or remodelers that can't wire AFCI's.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Gfci protected stickers are not required on downstream receptacles. I called all the counties around me and I think we are on the same page.
BTW, I am not talking about the 2 wire receptacles being replaced with a gfci. Those require the stickers "no equipment ground"
BTW, I am not talking about the 2 wire receptacles being replaced with a gfci. Those require the stickers "no equipment ground"
One city near me does require them. But I always install them for the owners' convenience anyway.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Does the city ask for them or is there an amendment? One area around here made me put the stickers - when I asked if there was an amendment he said "if you want to pass you'll put them on". My contractor saw the hair on my neck stand up and said "please dennis, let it go". I did but called his boss much later.... He is no longer with that area- not just because of me- others were complaining about him. The head guy said if any of my inspectors ever talk to you like that then I needed to let him know.
hbiss
EC, New York NEC: 2017
- Location
- Little Falls, New York NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- EC
All the time! Wife plugged in one of those outlet expanders that happens to have surge protection.
-Hal
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
How long did that take to figure out? 1st complaint?
hbiss
EC, New York NEC: 2017
- Location
- Little Falls, New York NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- EC
When the hair dryer wouldn't work after a few weeks.
-Hal
-Hal
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I'm in agreement with you (with respect to courtesy). Yes, you could do that if you installed the $45.00 GFCI breaker or the $20.00 GFCI receptacle at the first floor powder room. Do you just reset every time he trips the device or do you communicate with him by cell phone ot walkie talkie ? You're wiring a mega-mansion. Is an extra $100.00 in GFCI's going to put you on the losing side of the job ? If you bid the job that close you shouldn't be doing the job IMHO.
I'm in agreement with you (with respect to courtesy). Yes, you could do that if you installed the $45.00 GFCI breaker or the $20.00 GFCI receptacle at the first floor powder room. Do you just reset every time he trips the device or do you communicate with him by cell phone ot walkie talkie ? You're wiring a mega-mansion. Is an extra $100.00 in GFCI's going to put you on the losing side of the job ? If you bid the job that close you shouldn't be doing the job IMHO.
Communicate? Why? The inspector know when he pushes the test button, and the lights go out. I know to reset it when it trips. What more is needed?
I never mentioned diddly about the cost of devices, so what's your point?
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
No, you didn't mention anything about cost. It was I that made an ASSUMPTION based on the OP in that the reason a GFCI was placed in the first bathroom and all other receptacles down-stream were std. was due to a cost factor If I made that assumption in error I apologize.
As far as the EI goes, if you're working in a 1000 or 2000 sq. ft house - no problem. If you're in a 10000 or 12000 sq. ft. house, and you use the first bathroom method of installing GFCI's (as I mentioned in one of my posts) - you are a scoundrel and a cheap skate. But that's just my opinion and not Code significant. in any way. So, not to belabor the point, there's nothing in the NEC that does not allow you to wire a bathroom circuit that way.
With respect to cost, if you've bid on a job where the bid price is close and you don't want your costs to skyrocket, go ahead and wire the house that way. If you're wiring a mega-mansion I don't think the HO's will have a problem if you install a few additional GFCI's for their convenience.
Again, just my opinion
OK, for the record: For spec/tract homes I line-load the GFCI on the bath circuit. On customs, I pigtail and install a GFCI in each bathroom. Usually 2, maybe 3 bath circuits.
Also for the record: It's been 14 years since I roped a spec/tract home.
Happy now?
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I was happy right from the beginning. You were the one that seem to have gotten your feathers ruffled. I hope I didn’t offend you in anyway.
mwm1752
Senior Member
- Location
- Aspen, Colo
So simple to just ask for a code section he is enforcing - you can fight city hall all you want, be in the right, still lose - you might say he wants you to be liberal with the install just because. Inspectors are hired by people, hired by people, hired by people, hired by people, voted in office.
ramsy
NoFixNoPay Electric
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Unless all other options fail, pitailed GFCI's, usually missing tamper resistance, are removed during my trouble calls.
Critical for AFCI's as well, replacing down stream plugs with STD tamper resistant devices, for the entire circuit, removes loose wire nuts, exposes backstabs, burnt wiring, bootlegs, and hack jobs.
Tracing breaker to first outlet also reveals the critical path that missed several outlets, and removes another cause that voided insurance claims.
Those clients that will help with trouble calls rarely get tired of following me through the house to remove hacks & crap, and call backs years later can be reset over the phone.
Critical for AFCI's as well, replacing down stream plugs with STD tamper resistant devices, for the entire circuit, removes loose wire nuts, exposes backstabs, burnt wiring, bootlegs, and hack jobs.
Tracing breaker to first outlet also reveals the critical path that missed several outlets, and removes another cause that voided insurance claims.
Those clients that will help with trouble calls rarely get tired of following me through the house to remove hacks & crap, and call backs years later can be reset over the phone.
mikeames
Senior Member
- Location
- Gaithersburg MD
- Occupation
- Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
I know some debate the "readily accessible" line in 210.8 so they say the test/reset needs to be in the room. I don't agree with that, but its been debated by others. So don't be surprised if the inspector throws that at you.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Wow, 56 comments on something so simple. The inspector is wrong, plain and simple, and should be taken to task for this. The fact is the EC could have also used a GFCI breaker and not used any GFCI receps. and still be compliant. You can talk all day long about what may be a "better" install but that does not change the fact the inspector is clueless and no business calling this a violation.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
You mean the next electrician will realize a little more quickly that there is a GFCI to potentially look for when owner can't figure it out
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