inspector blues.

[stew]

Had a furnace install fail the other day with a few minor corrections written. no bushing on the end of the carflex # 6 wire. strap incorrectly installed " needes to be 12 " "from where it enters furnace". furnace not markes as to size of heat strip installed. furnace had 60 amp breaker as disconnect factory installed. we fed with # 6 cu to match the disconnect and used a 60 amp breaker in the panel. we argued all three and thought the issue was done with but a second different inspector goes out to inspect the corrections and leaves all 3 stand and adds a 4th one for not enough money on the permit. he counts the 220 volt circuit as 2 circuits instead of one so he trries to get more money on the permit. second call to office and they say the will handle. 3rd different inspector goes out to finalize this after we sucessfully argue all 4 points at issue. buys off our permit but spends 1.5 hours inspecting other items and creates a new permit for "homeowner corrections" . Finds that the service conductors come thru the back of the meter thru the wall no conduit just a nipple with bushings. # 12 uf laying on the ground from the house to the well house to run the pump. benn there for years and we told the homeowner it needed to be fixed. now lead inspector says he may cite US for not calling these issues to there attention. Maybe tom baker can tell me how they could possibly cite us for the failure of thier inspector to catch these items and how we are responsible for calling this to thier attention. rambling I know but this has been nothing short of a zoo to get this taken care of. Homeowner does not have the money to fix and now they say they are going to have the power shut off unless she gets this stuff fixed.

 

[George Stolz]

Maybe tom baker can tell me...

Why are you singling Tom out?

It sounds as though wiring has been done after inspection, but long before you showed up. The UF across the lawn being a dead giveaway.

I'd recommend maintaining a very friendly relationship with the building department, and covering your tail as best you can, while serving your customer's interests. Easy enough?

 

[stew]

This house is probaly 60 years old. the wiring was probaly never permitted. we are being as freindly with these state inpectors as possible under the circumstances. not singling out tom but we are in washington as well.Thought he mite havve some insight as to how they figure they can cite us.

 

[tom baker]

no bushing on the end of the carflex # 6 wire. strap incorrectly installed " needes to be 12 " "from where it enters furnace". furnace not markes as to size of heat strip installed.

Do you agree with these violations?
As an industry we misuse and misinstall flex conduit, most often its not supported within 12" of terminations.

 

[Bea]

Stew a question I have


furnace not markes as to size of heat strip installed. furnace had 60 amp breaker as disconnect factory installed. we fed with # 6 cu to match the disconnect and used a 60 amp breaker in the panel.

NEC 424.28 Furnace marking how was that addressed and just be because the furnace has a 60 amp breaker factory installed does not mean that is the actual load or circuit ampacity. That is why the equipment must be marked with its ampacity. May save you a return trip to verify label and not just rely on breaker in unit.:smile:

 

[paul]

I think they got the homeowner on this one. The wording here leaves existing wiring that's not up to code vulnerable to inspection. However, I could not find anything that makes you, as the contractor, liable for not pointing this out. I would ask them for the RCW or the WAC that says you're liable to report to them any unsafe wiring. What county are you in?



RCW 19.28.101
(3) Whenever the installation of any wiring, device, appliance, or equipment is not in accordance with this chapter, or is in such a condition as to be dangerous to life or property, the person, firm, partnership, corporation, or other entity owning, using, or operating it shall be notified by the department and shall within fifteen days, or such further reasonable time as may upon request be granted, make such repairs and changes as are required to remove the danger to life or property and to make it conform to this chapter. The director, through the inspector, is hereby empowered to disconnect or order the discontinuance of electrical service to conductors or equipment that are found to be in a dangerous or unsafe condition and not in accordance with this chapter. Upon making a disconnection the inspector shall attach a notice stating that the conductors have been found dangerous to life or property and are not in accordance with this chapter. It is unlawful for any person to reconnect such defective conductors or equipment without the approval of the department, and until the conductors and equipment have been placed in a safe and secure condition, and in a condition that complies with this chapter.

(4) The director, through the electrical inspector, has the right during reasonable hours to enter into and upon any building or premises in the discharge of his or her official duties for the purpose of making any inspection or test of the installation of new construction or altered electrical wiring, electrical devices, equipment, or material contained in or on the buildings or premises. No electrical wiring or equipment subject to this chapter may be concealed until it has been approved by the inspector making the inspection. At the time of the inspection, electrical wiring or equipment subject to this chapter must be sufficiently accessible to permit the inspector to employ any testing methods that will verify conformance with the national electrical code and any other requirements of this chapter.

 

[hillbilly]

Do you agree with these violations?
As an industry we misuse and misinstall flex conduit, most often its not supported within 12" of terminations.

That's a good point Tom.
If the OP knew that the violations existed, and they sound minor to me, the easiest thing would have been to correct them and call for re-inspection.
When he "rocked the boat", he got pitched into the stream.
steve

 

[stew]

ist of all none of the 3 violations were correctly cited. we were very nice when talking to these various inspectors ,courteous but firm in our convictions and backed up our conviction with code references. it still remains to be seen as to whether thes guys who have now ganged up on this poor gal will go thru with this turn off or not. If we get cited for thier failure to not any of these other problems we will appeal to Olympia. I can see nothing in any of the WAC or RCW's that require us to notify either. We are in king county. They had her in tears twice yesterday but i did not seem to matter to them. And hilbilly we dont just go around correcting things without the homeowners permission regardles as to whether they are apparent to us or not. The unprotected service conductors were not seen originally by us only the unburied uf. we brought this to the HOO attention and she elected not to have us do anyhting as she could not afford any more work.

 

[growler]

furnace not marked as to size of heat strip installed. furnace had 60 amp breaker as disconnect factory installed. we fed with # 6 cu to match the disconnect and used a 60 amp breaker in the panel.

I really don't know why but the HVAC guy's always forget to mark these ( it's their job ) but it's the electrical inspection that get's failed. I have been told more than once to have them properly marked by the HVAC contractor ( fat chance ). I have a marker so guess how they get marked.

 

[stew]

the current chapter in this saga is that they (3) inspectors went out and inspected this house from top to bottom and wrote 3 pages of homeowner corrections such as old style boxes too small thus conductor fill is too muchm doublr tapped breakers etc etc, They have told her that they can and will come back any time they desire and will call her any tikme they desire and will continue this process until thes corrections are done. They have given her 15 days to correct all of them or THEY will turn off her power. They have written code corrections on existing items such as bonding,grounding etc which were existing. they want 2 ground rods etc. I feel they are way way off base on this and have recommended that she seek legal advice and will help her get legal advice from our local low income agency. At least I will give her the info she needs to start an action . As far as i am concerned they have far exceeded thier authority not to mention thier threatening and intimidating manner in which they have addressed this lady.

 

[Dean83169]

Seems like minor issues as stated above but are they really something they would cut power to? I can see if they were safety issues but they are all minor, I mean we all try to follow the code as best we can as we all interpet it different. Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed and it all got worse.

 

[Sierrasparky]

interesting that you should have so much trouble with this building department.
I had an inspector pass a existing commercial tennant space that originally had T-bar ceiling installed but since removed. Wires , flex ,feeder conduits unsuported just hanging all over the place. No straps at connections nothing. Boxes supporte by the mc cable that fed them. He looked up there as it was in plain site but said nothing. I was hoping he would open his correction book and cite all this stuff I had wrote to the landlord who hired me and he refused to fix all this stuff.
Go figure .. no wonder there is fires from substandard work.