Inspector Disapproved Copper Rod with Ufer and Instead Used a #4 Rebar

M

MAD King

Member
Location
Nashville, TN
Hello,

so, a 25' #4 copper wire was used to connect the rebars with a 8' copper rod, which was driven into the ground (1), and the town inspector came out and had us placed a J rebar with wire ties on the footer (3), and then sticking a short #4 rebar into the ground and connect it to the J rebar (2).
Then he approved the slab and footer.
I am not aware that this is a code-compliant method.

Does anyone has an insight to this?
 

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Running a #4 wire in the concrete is specifically permitted as is using metal tie wire to connect together sections of rebar. Even better is doing both which it sounds like you did. Maybe his issue is the using a ground rod to tie into the UFER because it looks just like a rod and not a path to a UFER (so someone could run a #6 to it instead of a #4. Around here, it is customary to run a vertical piece of rebar in the wall cavity to make an accessible place to access that electrode. I really see no difference electrically between using a ground rod or using a piece of rebar as the place where you access the ground electrode, and the ground rod is probably better because of its copper coating. I think you could have just kept going with that #4 so it went directly to the service disconnect and forego terminating it some vertical rod/rebar.
 
I think what happened if you made an Ufer, but didn't make the Ufer rebar directly accessible as required. Instead the #4 went to the rebar inside the footing. My guess is that's what he was thinking.
 
suemarkp said:
Running a #4 wire in the concrete is specifically permitted as is using metal tie wire to connect together sections of rebar. Even better is doing both which it sounds like you did. Maybe his issue is the using a ground rod to tie into the UFER because it looks just like a rod and not a path to a UFER (so someone could run a #6 to it instead of a #4. Around here, it is customary to run a vertical piece of rebar in the wall cavity to make an accessible place to access that electrode. I really see no difference electrically between using a ground rod or using a piece of rebar as the place where you access the ground electrode, and the ground rod is probably better because of its copper coating. I think you could have just kept going with that #4 so it went directly to the service disconnect and forego terminating it some vertical rod/rebar.
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The difference is that the rebar will rust over time.
 
tthh said:
I think what happened if you made an Ufer, but didn't make the Ufer rebar directly accessible as required. Instead the #4 went to the rebar inside the footing. My guess is that's what he was thinking.
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The whole rebar grid on top is connected to the whole footers with J rebars every 3'.
 
MAD King said:
a 25' #4 copper wire was used
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Is that the bare solid copper conductor in the photo? If so, you could have run it in the bottom of the footing then the rebar is not required to be used, meaning you do not need to connect to it at all, the #4 bare IS then the CEE.

Since it's not in the footing and not the CEE why did you run it 25'? You could have connected to the rebar anywhere IN the footing. Then no stub up is required.
 
infinity said:
Is that the bare solid copper conductor in the photo? If so, you could have run it in the bottom of the footing then the rebar is not required to be used, meaning you do not need to connect to it at all, the #4 bare IS then the CEE.

Since it's not in the footing and not the CEE why did you run it 25'? You could have connected to the rebar anywhere IN the footing. Then no stub up is required.
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Yes, that is the bare solid copper wire on top of the rebar grid. I am going to connect that with the footer and then to the copper rod tomorrow.
Why wouldn't the inspector told us that instead of running a rebar into the ground and connect it with another one? Makes no sense.
 
The ufer is the rebar in the footer. The inspector had you extend the ufer so it was accessible outside of the structure. As suemarkup said, it is common to have the user connection point inside the structure.

What you did was to drive a rod into the dirt, which the inspector may have considered as a grounding electrode which you then connectedvto the rebar in the footing. Was this a standard 8 foot ground rod? Did you intend this rod to be a ground electrode, because it looks like one.
 
jim dungar said:
What you did was to drive a rod into the dirt, which the inspector may have considered as a grounding electrode which you then connectedvto the rebar in the footing. Was this a standard 8 foot ground rod? Did you intend this rod to be a ground electrode, because it looks like one.
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The inspector did the same. Using a short #4 rebar and placed it into the ground right next to the copper rod.
 
MAD King said:
The inspector did the same. Using a short #4 rebar and placed it into the ground right next to the copper rod.
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How is the rebar stub up connected to the footing rebar? Is it sticking out of the footer or just tie wired to a different piece that is in the footer?
 
MAD King said:
Yes, that is the bare solid copper wire on top of the rebar grid. I am going to connect that with the footer and then to the copper rod tomorrow.
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Why is even a ground rod? Did he tell you to install that? As tub up for connection to the GEC is not required. A GEC can be connected to the rebar directly within the footing.

You have #4 or 1/2" rebar for at least 20' That can be the electrode.
You have 25' of #4 bare copper. That can also be the electrode.
You only need the rebar or the bare copper not both.
The ground rod is not required but now that it is present if it remains you have to include it as part of the GES.

I would take the #4 out and connect it to the rebar right near where the service disconnect is being installed. The rebar is then the electrode, the #4 is the GEC and hopefully you can pull out the rod.
 
ptonsparky said:
I don’t see rebar near the bottom of a footing and it’s isolated by that barrier anyway. Am I missing something?
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I was noticing the exact same things.

The #4 is in the slab area not the bottom of the footing. The slab and footing have a vapor barrier so the footing has no direct contact with the soil.
 
ptonsparky said:
I don’t see rebar near the bottom of a footing and it’s isolated by that barrier anyway. Am I missing something?
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The vapor barrier does not appear to surround the entire footer, it looks like there is no barrier on the side against the wood form.
 
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