Inspector "I want..."

[electricmanscott]

Helped out a friend with a service change the other day. He had it inspected today. A few things the inspector wanted, agree? Disagree?

I know what I think...discuss!

1. #4 Cu must go to the neutral bar where the neutral is connected not the bar on the opposite side of the panel. "What if the bonding screw comes loose, you will lose your ground, you can't rely on just that screw"...."
"Just jump the two bars with a #6 and you're good"



2. Install GFCI receptacle at panel. Or "if you want to use the existing basement receptacles to count as the "Required receptacle" you have to change them to GFCI."

3. GEC has to connect to the street side of the meter. "I'll make it easy for you, just add a jumper around the meter and you'll be ok"
The GEC hit the pipe within 5' of entry and jumped across water meter already.

Also he mentioned that since the new AFCI requirements guys are installing fewer circuits in new homes. He will be checking to make sure you install as many circuits as the code requires.

 

[kjfelec]

Also known as the "My Town" inspector.

 

[480sparky]

1. #4 Cu must go to the neutral bar where the neutral is connected not the bar on the opposite side of the panel. "What if the bonding screw comes loose, you will lose your ground, you can't rely on just that screw"...."
"Just jump the two bars with a #6 and you're good"

So he's more concerned with grounding if one side of the neutral bar becomes electrically isolated from the other side? Guess he's never heard of an open neutral then.

2. Install GFCI receptacle at panel. Or "if you want to use the existing basement receptacles to count as the "Required receptacle" you have to change them to GFCI."

Why are there other 'required receptacles' in the basement required to be changed to GFI's if you don't provide a GFI recep at the panel? The two are not related.

3. GEC has to connect to the street side of the meter. "I'll make it easy for you, just add a jumper around the meter and you'll be ok"
The GEC hit the pipe within 5' of entry and jumped across water meter already.

So what is he asking for? Sounds like your install is legit as it is (assuming 3 pipe clamps).

Also he mentioned that since the new AFCI requirements guys are installing fewer circuits in new homes. He will be checking to make sure you install as many circuits as the code requires.

What's he gonna do? A load calc. on each circuit?


Sounds like one inspector I know. Favorite phrase is "Well, if it was my house....."

 

[infinity]

IMO he missed the boat on every thing you've listed.

 

[electricmanscott]

IMO he missed the boat on every thing you've listed.

Agreed. I wasn't there it was not my job. Instead of a 15 minute inspection my friend did everything he wanted and the guy shot the breeze with him for a while. Turned into a three hour affair.

The kicker is the guy told the homeowner "everything looks ok he just has to fix a few things..."

 

[ultramegabob]

Helped out a friend with a service change the other day. He had it inspected today. A few things the inspector wanted, agree? Disagree?

I know what I think...discuss!

1. #4 Cu must go to the neutral bar where the neutral is connected not the bar on the opposite side of the panel. "What if the bonding screw comes loose, you will lose your ground, you can't rely on just that screw"...."
"Just jump the two bars with a #6 and you're good"

****I love these "What If" senerios..... my responce is, what if we were on the moon?.... and I wouldnt want to run an additional jumper if there was a factory jumper installed....

2. Install GFCI receptacle at panel. Or "if you want to use the existing basement receptacles to count as the "Required receptacle" you have to change them to GFCI."

**** If you are in an unfinished basement, and you have general purpose recepts, they need to be GFCI protected anyway...

3. GEC has to connect to the street side of the meter. "I'll make it easy for you, just add a jumper around the meter and you'll be ok"
The GEC hit the pipe within 5' of entry and jumped across water meter already.

**** we are not required to bond to water lines here, meters are located outside and buried in the ground, and most all water lines are plastic in this area....

Also he mentioned that since the new AFCI requirements guys are installing fewer circuits in new homes. He will be checking to make sure you install as many circuits as the code requires.

**** this is just kind of an odd statement....

 

[Joe Villani]

Numbers 2 and 3, I dont agree with.

As for number 1, I can see his point, if you look 250.24 (A) (1) it states that the connection of the grounding electrode conductor shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or lateral to and including the terminal or bus which the grounded service conductor is connectedat the service disconnecting means.

Joe Villani

 

[nakulak]

Numbers 2 and 3, I dont agree with.

As for number 1, I can see his point, if you look 250.24 (A) (1) it states that the connection of the grounding electrode conductor shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or lateral to and including the terminal or bus which the grounded service conductor is connectedat the service disconnecting means.

Joe Villani

yeah, but it says at any accessible point, not at every accessible point ?

 

[LarryFine]

yeah, but it says at any accessible point, not at every accessible point ?

No, but his point is that, unless the GEC land directly on the neutral bus itself, by landing it on the EGC bus instead, the bus' mounting screws, the cabinet, and the bonding screw and/or jumper comprise splicing.

 

[JohnE]

The Milford inspectors are up to it again, huh?:grin:

 

[quogueelectric]

Helped out a friend with a service change the other day. He had it inspected today. A few things the inspector wanted, agree? Disagree?

I know what I think...discuss!

1. #4 Cu must go to the neutral bar where the neutral is connected not the bar on the opposite side of the panel. "What if the bonding screw comes loose, you will lose your ground, you can't rely on just that screw"...."
"Just jump the two bars with a #6 and you're good"

*********I see his concern a lot of the new panels have neutral buss on both sides of the panels. However the bonding screw would have to come loose on everyone on the transformer for it to happen yet I have seen it happen but very rarely. I would either move the #4 or jump the buss to get through the inspection.

2. Install GFCI receptacle at panel. Or "if you want to use the existing basement receptacles to count as the "Required receptacle" you have to change them to GFCI."
***************
This is standard procedure for me there would have been an offset nipple to a handibox with a gfi receptacle screwed to the backboard this would not have been been an issue on final.

3. GEC has to connect to the street side of the meter. "I'll make it easy for you, just add a jumper around the meter and you'll be ok"
The GEC hit the pipe within 5' of entry and jumped across water meter already.
***********He just wanted it on the street side which is where it should be Not a big deal just move it a few feet. Btw was the jumper the old #6 jumper.

Also he mentioned that since the new AFCI requirements guys are installing fewer circuits in new homes. He will be checking to make sure you install as many circuits as the code requires.

******** Fair warning I tend to overdo anyway not a concern for me.

 

[electricmanscott]

******** Fair warning I tend to overdo anyway not a concern for me.

So how many circuits would I be required to have in a four bedroom, two bath, one laundry, living room, family room, kitchen, and two car garage. :-?

 

[electricmanscott]

Numbers 2 and 3, I dont agree with.

As for number 1, I can see his point, if you look 250.24 (A) (1) it states that the connection of the grounding electrode conductor shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or lateral to and including the terminal or bus which the grounded service conductor is connectedat the service disconnecting means.

Joe Villani

And that is exactly what was done. It is all bonded together.

 

[quogueelectric]

So how many circuits would I be required to have in a four bedroom, two bath, one laundry, living room, family room, kitchen, and two car garage. :-?

by me if there is no central air we need to install a dedicated 20 in each bedroom for a window shaker. I usually try to pick northmost walls as this provides the least light. It is hard to say can get very pricey. two baths can be doubled up but then you need lighting ckts for lts and fans. I never do bare minimum anyway. I usually pull at least 8ckts to a kitchen. 2 sabc 20/ 2 micro/fridge 2 dishwash/disposal 1 lightingusually undercounter and lots of recess cans. Some gas stoves have 20a plate warmer in them. Every house is different.

 

[iwire]

Fair warning I tend to overdo anyway .

It's easy to over design, the skill is knowing what you don't need.

 

[ITO]

Hmmm
[reads 90.4]
[looks at the inspector right in the eyes]
[says]"Yes sir I will get that taken care of, thanks for the heads up on the AFIs."
[gets back to work making the necessary revisions to the work to get a green tag]

It has never been profitable to argue or play one-ups-man-ship with the AJH, or and inspector. I don't care if they want my feeder conduit painted pink, if that's what is takes to pass inspection, then I will send out a case of pink paint and get my men started.

 

[stickboy1375]

It has never been profitable to argue or play one-ups-man-ship with the AJH, or and inspector. I don't care if they want my feeder conduit painted pink, if that's what is takes to pass inspection, then I will send out a case of pink paint and get my men started.

but... WHY? That means you have to do the same on every job! Why not just fix the problem to begin with?

 

[stickboy1375]

by me if there is no central air we need to install a dedicated 20 in each bedroom for a window shaker. I usually try to pick northmost walls as this provides the least light. It is hard to say can get very pricey. two baths can be doubled up but then you need lighting ckts for lts and fans. I never do bare minimum anyway. I usually pull at least 8ckts to a kitchen. 2 sabc 20/ 2 micro/fridge 2 dishwash/disposal 1 lightingusually undercounter and lots of recess cans. Some gas stoves have 20a plate warmer in them. Every house is different.

I guess I cant afford you... :roll:

 

[SmithBuilt]

It has never been profitable to argue or play one-ups-man-ship with the AJH, or and inspector.

But I like arguing with the inspector. I would have to find some other way to pass the time.

Seriously I'm of the opposite opinion. I try my best to do a job per code. If I have an inspector that wants things his way I have a problem with that. Foremost I did not bid the job to please him I bid it to meet code.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Remember, arguing with an inspector is like trying to teach a cat to fly. You soon discover that it's a waste of time and all your doing is annoying the cat. :grin: