Inspector Question

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ceb58

ceb58

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Raeford, NC
I have a question for our inspector friends out there in Mike Holt land. I have looked at a older home that needs a service up grade. House built in the late 40's early 50's it's about 800sqft. Four rooms plus bath. It has a 60 amp meter base (poco has power cut loose, no one living there yet) cloth ins. wire on side of house to weather head, cloth wire on side of house around corner to a 60-30 fuse box installed on rear of house in a screened in porch. Cloth ins. wiring going into attic from fuse box 3 120v circ. 1 220v circ.. In the four rooms there are only two recp. per room, total of 5 lighting outlets, 1 circ. for elect. stove. The local insp. has told me that if there is more than 50% redone the whole house would have to be brought into code. My question is if I were to upgrade the meter base to 100amp, install new riser for overhead service, install a new 100amp panel with breakers. With the limited amount of wiring in the home would you consider the new service to be over 50% of an upgrade?
 
Absolutely. This is an AHJ call. Get ahold of him/her and ask this question. Also, do your homework for any ordinances in the municipality you are working in to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Jeff
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
If he says its over 50 then pull permit to just change riser and meter this month,next month change panel.Very stupid rule.
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I have spoken with the AHJ he did not elaborate on what constituted 50%. That's why I am asking here for others opinions on what they consider the 50% cut off to be. I dont think doing the change in the stages you suggested Jim would work. The AHJ has already said the service, which we know, must be at least 100amp.
 
Be a little careful about pulling multiple permits over time to avoid the 50% rule.
Some jurisdictions also put a time period to the 50% rule.


I will say that NY use to have the same rule. That rule has since gone away (just this past January) and has been replaced with some relaxed requirements. Some of the states that adhered to the 50% rule have found out it hampers renovation and has put "main street" at peril of sitting vacant while it was cheaper and easier to build new some place else.

Check the actual wording of your jurisdiction, as there may have been a change in your jurisdiction as well that the AHJ is not aware of yet.
 
In some jurisdictions the 50% comes into effect when remodeling of the structure all trades inclusive building,plumbing,heating electrical not just an aproxmate 50% for one trade.
 
SEO said:
In some jurisdictions the 50% comes into effect when remodeling of the structure all trades inclusive building,plumbing,heating electrical not just an aproxmate 50% for one trade.
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That's what I was thinking.
 
ceb58 said:
...With the limited amount of wiring in the home would you consider the new service to be over 50% of an upgrade?
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Create an estimate and reveal the percentage of the service change, it is my experience the service and distribution wont be over 50% of the electrical value to bring the whole house up. You will be doing a good thing to at least change the service and meter main and distribution; of course this includes the grounding & bonding.
 
ceb58 said:
I have a question for our inspector friends out there in Mike Holt land. I have looked at a older home that needs a service up grade. House built in the late 40's early 50's it's about 800sqft. Four rooms plus bath. It has a 60 amp meter base (poco has power cut loose, no one living there yet) cloth ins. wire on side of house to weather head, cloth wire on side of house around corner to a 60-30 fuse box installed on rear of house in a screened in porch. Cloth ins. wiring going into attic from fuse box 3 120v circ. 1 220v circ.. In the four rooms there are only two recp. per room, total of 5 lighting outlets, 1 circ. for elect. stove. The local insp. has told me that if there is more than 50% redone the whole house would have to be brought into code. My question is if I were to upgrade the meter base to 100amp, install new riser for overhead service, install a new 100amp panel with breakers. With the limited amount of wiring in the home would you consider the new service to be over 50% of an upgrade?
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I can't tell you about your area, but, I would go to your AHJ, and tell him your plans. Ask him point blank, do you feel that is over 50%? If so, go back to your customer and explain what the price difference is going to be. I personally would recommend start from scratch, everyone will be happier once its done, (and the bill is paid). :))
 
In my part of Florida, 50% means 50% of the taxable value of the property. I do not think that a new service would increase the value of any property by 50%
 
Cavie makes a good point, although with the housing issues lately a new service may be worth more then some houses. If the 50% is based on the amount of work it would only take 1 man less then 1 day to do the service and feeder with panels. It would take more then 1 man 1 day to change all branch circuits out. The way I see it the service upgrade is no more then 1/3 of the work. JMO
 
ceb58 said:
The local insp. has told me that if there is more than 50% redone the whole house would have to be brought into code.
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Around here, the 50% refers to the square footage of the house. It has nothing to do with dollars or value.

If you renovate over 50% of the floor area, the entire structure must be brought to present requirements.
 
[
quote=acrwc10]Cavie makes a good point, although with the housing issues lately a new service may be worth more then some houses.
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[/QUOTE]

That is about what it comes down to. If I replace the service it will double the value.
 
LarryFine said:
Around here, the 50% refers to the square footage of the house. It has nothing to do with dollars or value.

If you renovate over 50% of the floor area, the entire structure must be brought to present requirements.
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With this any amount of electrical couldn't cause a full upgrade. I think this desition really should be up to the electrician.
 
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