Inspector requiring afci for fixed electric baseboard heating

[PCBERRY]

We have a 100 unit apartment complex which is new construction with fixed electric baseboard heat on 20 amp 120 volt dedicated circuitry.
The electrical inspector taking the code definintion out of article 100 which reads : Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment .
The inspector then invokes 210.12 which requires all dwelling unit outlets on 20 amp circuitry to be AFCI protected

Is this a proper interpretation of the code ? Since art 424 fixed electric space heating makes no reference to this requirement?

 

[charlie]

In my opinion, you do not have an outlet where you are direct wiring equipment. From the 2008 Edition of the NFPA NEC Handbook, "This term is frequently misused. Common examples of outlets include lighting outlets, receptacle outlets, and smoke alarm outlets."

 

[al hildenbrand]

Ouch!

An outlet is the end of the Premises Wiring (System) and the beginning of the wires in the Utilization Equipment. Both are Article 100 Definitions and will help to understand the broader idea of "Outlet" and used in 210.12(B).

If the heaters had been 240 (or 208) there wouldn't be an involvement of 210.12(B).

 

[augie47]

I hate to disagree with Charlie............. but

NEC:

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.

Utilization Equipment. Equipment that utilizes electric energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating, lighting, or similar purposes.

What is the difference between a hard wired smoke detector and a hard wire heater ?

I do not like the call, but I agree with it ..................AFCI required.

\

 

[al hildenbrand]

Charlie,

A "smoke alarm outlet" is a piece of Utilization Equipment that is "direct wired". . . .just like a baseboard heater.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Any load in the bedroom that is supplied by a 120-volt circuit and is 15 or20-ampere is to have the branch circuit protected by an AFCI device.

Example of loads:
Lighting
Receptacles (the receptacle is not the actual load, what is plugged into the receptacle is)
heating
smoke alarms, CO detectors (120v types)
ceiling paddle fans
fans
air conditioning
Etc....

 

[celtic]

Slightly off topic [and my NEC is not on this laptop]...

GFCI in a comm. kitchen...does it say 15/20 120v outlets or circuits?
Hardwired hairdryers..typically 20A 120v...in a bathroom...GFCI or not?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

GFCI protection as per 210.8(A) & (B) are to protect the receptacles, not the circuits.
125v- 15 or 20-ampere rated receptacles

 

[charlie b]

GFCI in a comm. kitchen...does it say 15/20 120v outlets or circuits?

Neither. It says ?receptacles.?

Hardwired hairdryers..typically 20A 120v...in a bathroom...GFCI or not?

Nothing hardwired counts. It only speaks of receptacles.

 

[charlie b]

I hate to disagree with Charlie............. but . . .

I don?t mind your doing so, as long as it?s the ?other Charlie.? :grin:

In this case, however, I have to join you. It?s a bit of an odd situation, but for a baseboard heater the ?outlet? occurs outside the building?s structural parts. It is outside the wall space. The outlet is internal to the heater itself, and is the point at which wires that have left the wall space (or wall box) connect to the internal wiring of the heater.

This is slightly different from smoke detector outlets and lighting outlets, I believe. If I do not mistake, the wires from the smoke/light are taken from that device, are brought into a 4x4 box that is above the plane of the ceiling, and are connected within that box.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I hate to disagree with Charlie............. but

NEC:

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.

Utilization Equipment. Equipment that utilizes electric energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating, lighting, or similar purposes.

What is the difference between a hard wired smoke detector and a hard wire heater ?

I do not like the call, but I agree with it ..................AFCI required.

\

I personally agree with this definition. I know it is costly but that was kinda the plan right....

 

[alfiesauce]

This is why I try to always wire baseboard heat and electric infloor heat with a 240V supply because then you don't have to AF it...
Making you AF it because it's 120 but not having to because its 240 is totally lame but that's what the exception is.

 

[al hildenbrand]

. . .the wires from the smoke/light are taken from that device, are brought into a 4x4 box that is above the plane of the ceiling, and are connected within that box.

That is the common physical configuration, i.e., a junction box mounted to the structure within a ceiling and with an opening through the ceiling surface material. The smoke attaches to the box.

However, nothing prevents the junction box from being mounted on the ceiling surface, and the smoke then being held away from the surface by the thickness of the junction box.

And there are smokes that don't have pigtails, rather have "back stabs" in the body of the smoke. This connection, the "outlet" from the premises wiring (system) to the utilization equipment, is then similar to the baseboard heater in that the "outlet" is inside the room, not recessed behind its surface.

 

[480sparky]

I don?t mind your doing so, as long as it?s the ?other Charlie.? :grin:

In this case, however, I have to join you. It?s a bit of an odd situation, but for a baseboard heater the ?outlet? occurs outside the building?s structural parts. It is outside the wall space. The outlet is internal to the heater itself, and is the point at which wires that have left the wall space (or wall box) connect to the internal wiring of the heater.

This is slightly different from smoke detector outlets and lighting outlets, I believe. If I do not mistake, the wires from the smoke/light are taken from that device, are brought into a 4x4 box that is above the plane of the ceiling, and are connected within that box.

So if I wire a room with surface mounted EMT or Wiremold, I don't need AFCIs?

 

[aftershock]

Why is the whole circuit suppose to be AFCI protected and not just the receps? Is it because of the circuit being within the structural walls and/or ceiling of the bedroom?

 

[480sparky]

Why is the whole circuit suppose to be AFCI protected and not just the receps? Is it because of the circuit being within the structural walls and/or ceiling of the bedroom?

Because an arc fault can occur anywhere in a circuit, not just at the receps.

 

[76nemo]

So if I wire a room with surface mounted EMT or Wiremold, I don't need AFCIs?

Long as you don't go through any walls/partitions Just kidding, NEVER heard it stated like that before Charlie.

 

[aftershock]

Because an arc fault can occur anywhere in a circuit, not just at the receps.

So if I have a homerun from the panel to let's say a dedicated recep on the back porch and the wire for that homerun passes through the structural part of a bedroom and an arc fault occured within that circuit that passed through the bedroom, should that circuit need to be AFCI protected?

Or better yet, just so I understand this. When an arc fault occures within a circuit, where does the damage take place within said circuit?

 

[480sparky]

So if I have a homerun from the panel to let's say a dedicated recep on the back porch and the wire for that homerun passes through the structural part of a bedroom and an arc fault occured within that circuit that passed through the bedroom, should that circuit need to be AFCI protected?

No. But that was a common misconception when AFCIs were first required.

Or better yet, just so I understand this. When an arc fault occures within a circuit, where does the damage take place within said circuit?

At the arc, where else?

 

[76nemo]

So if I have a homerun from the panel to let's say a dedicated recep on the back porch and the wire for that homerun passes through the structural part of a bedroom and an arc fault occured within that circuit that passed through the bedroom, should that circuit need to be AFCI protected?

Or better yet, just so I understand this. When an arc fault occures within a circuit, where does the damage take place within said circuit?

That wouldn't be part of the bedroom circuit, so no.