inspectors doing electrical- learned something new

[flatlander]

For clarification, I never said or meant those hacks were installing a MWBC, just adding a single circuit. 12-2



Sorry auto correct

 

[jap]

For clarification, I never said or meant those hacks were installing a MLB , just adding a single circuit. 12-2

What do you mean by MLB?

JAP>

 

[jap]

If one of the 2p breakers was being used for a 1p circuit how many circuits was in the loadcenter?

if there was (1) 2p breaker and only 1 pole was being used that would mean at the most for 6 movements there would be 5 1p circuits left that would make it a (7) circuit loadcenter ?

if there is any other 2p breaker in the panel that would only leave (4) 1p spaces left which would make it an 8 circuit loadcenter but then adding the new circuit to the other pole would not violate the 6 movement rule.

So how many circuit Loadcenter was it that you were lookin at.


JAP>

 

[flatlander]

If one of the 2p breakers was being used for a 1p circuit how many circuits was in the loadcenter?

if there was (1) 2p breaker and only 1 pole was being used that would mean at the most for 6 movements there would be 5 1p circuits left that would make it a (7) circuit loadcenter ?

if there is any other 2p breaker in the panel that would only leave (4) 1p spaces left which would make it an 8 circuit loadcenter but then adding the new circuit to the other pole would not violate the 6 movement rule.

So how many circuit Loadcenter was it that you were lookin at.


JAP>

there may have been more 2 pole breakers , so what. There was six handles. This 6 handle rule has nothing to do with spaces

 

[jap]

there may have been more 2 pole breakers , so what. There was six handles. This 6 handle rule has nothing to do with spaces

I'm Just thinking that if there was only 1 circuit used on the 2p breaker we're talking about, and the 6 movement rule was in place with no subpanel, and changing that (1) 2p breaker out to (2) 1 pole breakers would violate the 6 movement rule, that would mean that all of the breakers in the panel were 2p to begin with.

Just seems odd.

JAP>

 

[jap]

Or some other combination.

Regardless seems like a house with very little load with very few circuits.

JAP>

 

[Strathead]

That's just the conflict of interest, we also have permit rules that only a EC or homeowner may do his own work and that's if it's not for sale lease or rent. The owner must pull the permit and the only one legally who can work under that permit is immediate family member. So not your buddy, paid or not


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It seems to me this would only be a rule in a left coast state. That is a very bad rule and one that I would violate quickly if it were my house.

 

[peter d]

I know I've said this a thousand times, but in my area most full time inspectors are failed electricians and that's the reason why they are inspecting. Most of them don't know the code and certainly don't have common sense when inspecting.

 

[mwm1752]

actually pretty obvious what is going on.
I was asked about the breaker. I followed them into the home past the meter to the only sub-panel, where I see six handles and no main. Asked if there was another location with a main switch. Answer No.
I said no need to change the breaker as it had a spare pole and the correct amperage for what they were doing. ( roll of 12-2 on the floor) The inspector/contractor replied with " it's against code to use a 2 pole for single pole circuits"
I told him it was legitimate. I said nope. He said hew was an Electrical inspector and he knew the code. After he saw me count up the handles he knew where I was going next. He said that only applies if there is no main. I said you just confirmed to me there was no main.

You could see the steam coming from this guy's head.

Again this guy said " I'm a inspector for the city of xxx xxxxo I know what I am doing. ..... rurr ......

On that note I saw a pissing match comming on and quickly left

So let's clean up your language -- service gear is interior and is not a sub-panel -- are you sure there wasn't a back fed main & the panel was listed as service equipment -- with a back fed main?/ then there would not be any other location with a main switch -- he only confirmed there was no other location with a main switch -- Is the inspector doing work in his jurisdiction -- what is your estimate of original installation of this service -- hopefully you did not assume the circumstances as I had made assumptions during this thread -- In any case the inspector should not be adding circuitry without a permit

 

[Barbqranch]

Do you actually know if he is an electrical inspector working for an AHJ, or is he simply a home inspector trying to back up his incorrect opinion? Regardless, there are several violations that should be reported.

 

[jap]

So let's clean up your language -- service gear is interior and is not a sub-panel -- are you sure there wasn't a back fed main & the panel was listed as service equipment -- with a back fed main?/ then there would not be any other location with a main switch -- he only confirmed there was no other location with a main switch -- Is the inspector doing work in his jurisdiction -- what is your estimate of original installation of this service -- hopefully you did not assume the circumstances as I had made assumptions during this thread -- In any case the inspector should not be adding circuitry without a permit

I'm still trying to figure out how an inspector from 70 miles away is doing work at a buddy's of his house, needs a breaker, walks next door finds an electrician, somehow invites him into his buddy's house, shows him a 6 movement Main panel that is full, fed with #8's on the far side of the house with no outside main, revealing all his concealed boxes and code violations, tells the electrician he needs the extra breaker because he thinks having a 1p circuit on a 2p breaker is somehow a code violation and then tries to defend himself to ward off any embarrassment in front of his friend and then tries to change the subject when the electrician starts counting handles in the panel to try and ward off any further embarassement of violating the 6 movement rule.

This guy may have simply not known any better or he was the victim of a very odd set of circumstances.

Regardless, If I had a buddy that would travel 70 miles to help me out, I'd take offense to all the trash you all are talking about him.

If he is an actual inspector and is doing something wrong, turn him in, or better yet, call for an inspection and give them the neighbors address and let the authorities in that jurisdiction do the work.

JAP>

 

[flatlander]

Clarified:
Meter only on the outside
Load center on the inside 30 plus feet away on the far opposite end of the house.
Service wire in rigid to crawlspace then 30' , then up the wall to load center.
No main in load center
You can see the service conduit in the crawlspace
Panel full with breakers 6 handles a mix of 2 pole , single pole and twins.
small 2 bedroom cottage
Saw Gas range and gas water heater , probably gas heat and no A/C
Looks like #8 TW service entrance could be #6

 

[rudiseldb]

It seems to me this would only be a rule in a left coast state. That is a very bad rule and one that I would violate quickly if it were my house.

It does happen all the time, we can't catch everyone. I look at it as it may stop the ones who don't know what they are doing and gives the contractors more work.


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[mwm1752]

I should mention that generally with no exterior disconnect fire dept would just pull the meter in an emergency -- Why would he have twins & only use one side of a 2 pole breaker? pandora's box

 

[jap]

I should mention that generally with no exterior disconnect fire dept would just pull the meter in an emergency -- Why would he have twins & only use one side of a 2 pole breaker? pandora's box

At most from what's described this is an 6 or 8 circuit loadcenter from what I can gather and its actually in a small 2 bedroom cottage.

(1) 2p, (1) Twin & (1) 1p would take up 4 spaces.
If the panel is full, that only leaves 2 throws of the hand left or at max (2) 2p breakers so I'm guessing 8.

JAP>

 

[mwm1752]

is the service wire completely sleeved in a raceway to the service equipment?

 

[flatlander]

Clarified:
Meter only on the outside
Load center on the inside 30 plus feet away on the far opposite end of the house.
Service wire in rigid to crawlspace then 30' , then up the wall to load center.
No main in load center
You can see the service conduit in the crawlspace
Panel full with breakers 6 handles a mix of 2 pole , single pole and twins.
small 2 bedroom cottage
Saw Gas range and gas water heater , probably gas heat and no A/C
Looks like #8 TW service entrance could be #6

is the service wire completely sleeved in a raceway to the service equipment?

Yes GRC all the way, why you ask?

 

[flatlander]

I'm still trying to figure out how an inspector from 70 miles away is doing work at a buddy's of his house, needs a breaker, walks next door finds an electrician, somehow invites him into his buddy's house, shows him a 6 movement Main panel that is full, fed with #8's on the far side of the house with no outside main, revealing all his concealed boxes and code violations, tells the electrician he needs the extra breaker because he thinks having a 1p circuit on a 2p breaker is somehow a code violation and then tries to defend himself to ward off any embarrassment in front of his friend and then tries to change the subject when the electrician starts counting handles in the panel to try and ward off any further embarassement of violating the 6 movement rule.

This guy may have simply not known any better or he was the victim of a very odd set of circumstances.

Regardless, If I had a buddy that would travel 70 miles to help me out, I'd take offense to all the trash you all are talking about him.

If he is an actual inspector and is doing something wrong, turn him in, or better yet, call for an inspection and give them the neighbors address and let the authorities in that jurisdiction do the work.

JAP>

not that difficult to fatham. I'd been working next door on a remodel on and off for some time. There is signage on my truck for advertising. All these homes on this street were about the era. None originally had even a 100 amp service or AC. The homeowner asked me about some electrical the last time I worked next door. I told them about roughly what it would cost including a permit. I suppose what through them off was that permit thing.
This inspector trunk slammer is a friend of the owner. I suppose they sleep just as good as if I did the work, after all it was "inspected".
:happysad:

 

[jap]

not that difficult to fatham. I'd been working next door on a remodel on and off for some time. There is signage on my truck for advertising. All these homes on this street were about the era. None originally had even a 100 amp service or AC. The homeowner asked me about some electrical the last time I worked next door. I told them about roughly what it would cost including a permit. I suppose what through them off was that permit thing.
This inspector trunk slammer is a friend of the owner. I suppose they sleep just as good as if I did the work, after all it was "inspected".
:happysad:

Now we're getting somewhere.
I finally see where your coming from.

If I priced a project and someone else ended up doing the work for the simple fact I priced it right and they left something out and weren't qualified, and then, came over and asked me for material or anything else, I'd probably find a few things to sting em with myself.


JAP.

 

[flatlander]

Now we're getting somewhere.
I finally see where your coming from.

If I priced a project and someone else ended up doing the work for the simple fact I priced it right and they left something out and weren't qualified, and then, came over and asked me for material or anything else, I'd probably find a few things to sting em with myself.


JAP.

not looking to sting the homeowner. Just very insulted by the brazing attitude if the inspector/trunk slammer. Confirmed he does have ICC electrical inspector current certification.