Inspectors job
- Thread starter hardworkingstiff
- Start date
- Status
This is awful inspectors reading this string are certain to collapse in the coner and assume the fetal posistion.
The code is always a fight of langauge Vs intent.
The CMPs are not always certain of intent. There is a significant amount of compromise on panels, read the ROP and ROC, unfortunately the application of the code is not always black and white ( you may think it is but my experindce is it is not) I think the Code is written (to some degree) to allow for such interpertations and this will always cause disagreements between the installer and enforcer.
As I mentioned earlier most jurisdictions have appeals processes. when this method is exercised it weeds out bad inspectors and or contractors.
All of us are unique in are own way and we all have specific experinces. It is not easy to view each installation with a fresh eye some times the EC is catching the inspector after dealing with one or several installers that some would not let carry their screwdriver.
Don't paint every inspector with the same paint brush. They should not paint each installer with the same paint brush either.
YA I'm an inspector and some days I'm not as good as I should be. But there are contaractors out there not as good as you guys appear to be.
The code is always a fight of langauge Vs intent.
The CMPs are not always certain of intent. There is a significant amount of compromise on panels, read the ROP and ROC, unfortunately the application of the code is not always black and white ( you may think it is but my experindce is it is not) I think the Code is written (to some degree) to allow for such interpertations and this will always cause disagreements between the installer and enforcer.
As I mentioned earlier most jurisdictions have appeals processes. when this method is exercised it weeds out bad inspectors and or contractors.
All of us are unique in are own way and we all have specific experinces. It is not easy to view each installation with a fresh eye some times the EC is catching the inspector after dealing with one or several installers that some would not let carry their screwdriver.
Don't paint every inspector with the same paint brush. They should not paint each installer with the same paint brush either.
YA I'm an inspector and some days I'm not as good as I should be. But there are contaractors out there not as good as you guys appear to be.
- Location
- Massachusetts
You will never find a post where I have said inspectors have it easy. :smile:
No doubt there are a ton of bad contractors.
That said I still fear hearing inspectors talk about intent.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I had no problem with it,
it is a perfect example though.Looking at the SER issue the words where not there to prohibit it and the CMP must have felt the same way regardless of the intent all along. I would say that the change proves the point I had been making that it was not directly prohibited.
Understandable
Langauge is enforced.
But
Afci's (dwellings)
A laundry is not mentioned in 210.12(B)
Does this area require AFCI??
what does similar mean?
what was the intent of the CMP when it actually accepted language to require the entire dwelling to AFCI-ed and then omiited bathrooms, kitchens, unfinished areas and outdoors.
I had no problem with it,
Looking at the SER issue the words where not there to prohibit it and the CMP must have felt the same way regardless of the intent all along. I would say that the change proves the point I had been making that it was not directly prohibited.
and we would still disagree, but the 2008 ruined that, no more SER underground posts, i kinda miss them
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Kilmarnock, Va
- Occupation
- Retired after 52 years in the trade.
I do not think so, there has been no slander against inspectors, some questions and some facts, but no harm is meant against an important part of our profession.
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
As much as it pains me
(kidding) I have to agree with iwire that intent has nothing to do with it. The AHJ has the job to interpret the rules not guess "what are they trying to say here?"As far as AFCI in the laundry it is up to the AHJ to decide if the laundry is a similar room because that is what the code says. If they had intended it to say something else...............they would have.
(added) Just like if they intented receptacles within 6ft of the kitchen sink in dwelling units to be GFCI they would have SAID so.... yeah still can't let it go.....
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
Don't read into what I intended to say just what I said.
The code says what is says brother not what anyone thinks it says. So if the AHJ thinks there are rooms similar to those listed they need to be AFCI protected because that's what it say.
- Location
- Massachusetts
ericsherman37
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon Coast
Well in my opinion there's at least some parts of the Code that are intentionally ambiguous. And there are lots that aren't. But that still lends itself to interpretation on occasion. And with a pseudo-appelate system in place then it can work its way up until it reaches someone who DOES know what the CMP's intent was. I think at some point in the recent past, one of the top electrical inspector guys in our state was on a CMP.
One of our apprenticeship teachers is the County electrical inspector. He's good, and fair, and he gives us the inside scoop on the inspector world. I agree with you on the police officer vs. judge thing, but it's kind of a matter of the inspector's personality. If he's a jerk with a complex then he might measure every single hole you bore to make sure your wire is 1 1/4" back. Otherwise he might work with you instead of against. The Code can't anticipate every scenario and so it sometimes needs to remain vague, in which case the inspector, usually representing the AHJ around here, needs to objectively decide if you're compliant or not.
Side note: My wife and I just saw the new Star Trek movie and it was awesome.
mivey
Senior Member
dcspector
Senior Member
- Location
- Burke, Virginia
I read this entire thread and thought is was a good one.:smile:
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Actually you would be surprised. If I can dig through this pile of papers on my desk I'll see if I can find the examples that were given to us at the last Southwestern Section Meeting of the IAEI. Really, had a whole two hours on "Grey areas in the NEC". We were even told that some are in there on purpose.
As for being an inspector vs an EC. I chose inspection not because I was "washed up", but simply because I wanted the security for my family. I've been with the city for almost 20 years now, I work 7:00-4:30 four days a week and then I work 7:00-3:30 every other Friday and I get every other Friday off. 11 paid holidays. 7.95 hours of annual leave every two weeks, comp time vs overtime if I chose and holiday comp if a holiday falls on my day off. 457 plan with city contribution. Retirerment paid for entirely by the city. Boot allowance. Tuition reinbursment. Training paid for by the city. Health, vision, dental insurance for my family paid for by the city. Truck provided by the city. We don't make $100K a year here, but I'll be in the $75K range this year.
Like they say, not bad work, if you can get it. :smile:
Oh yeah, and I also don't like inspectors that don't know what they are talking about, but no more than electricians that are the same way.
SAC
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
I guess I don't get it. Isn't that the inspector's job? Why is someone a "jerk with a complex" for doing something that is their job? I'm not involved with inspections, so maybe I just don't understand (but my parent's house did have a fire that was caused by a nail placed through a wire - I wish that hole was measured).
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
- Status