Inspectors?

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Hey....no problem. You will find out the more I post on here that I don't get mad or upset about anything. Life is too short! It's just that that is what you said so I thought you thought that.........now I'm confused about what you thought that I thought that you thought!!!!:-?
 
GrayHeadedMule said:
Hey....no problem. You will find out the more I post on here that I don't get mad or upset about anything. Life is too short! It's just that that is what you said so I thought you thought that.........now I'm confused about what you thought that I thought that you thought!!!!:-?
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Now I am confused...:D...We are kool and the gang my friend.:)
 
480sparky said:
Not at all. Some inspectors just need educated. I still run into some who think a 3-way switch is required for stairways.
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And a 3-way is required because I say it is and 90-4 gives me that authority. Per 210.70(2)(c) you're going to have a switch at each level. How you do it is up to you, but I think three ways are way cheaper than contactors. And you can argue all you want, I know what it says.
 
cowboyjwc said:
And a 3-way is required because I say it is and 90-4 gives me that authority. Per 210.70(2)(c) you're going to have a switch at each level. How you do it is up to you, but I think three ways are way cheaper than contactors. And you can argue all you want, I know what it says.
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Then I'd fight you all the way up your chain of command. A switch is required, but not a 3-way. If I put a SP at the top, and a SP on the bottom, that will pass.
Granted, the HO would kill me for doing so, but it's still legal, code-wise.
 
480sparky said:
Not at all. Some inspectors just need educated. I still run into some who think a 3-way switch is required for stairways.
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Stupid inspector:D
Like John says. I don't care if you use a 3 way or not, but you shall where appicable::
(c) Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entryway, to control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between floor levels has six risers or more.
 
480sparky said:
Then I'd fight you all the way up your chain of command. A switch is required, but not a 3-way. If I put a SP at the top, and a SP on the bottom, that will pass.
Granted, the HO would kill me for doing so, but it's still legal, code-wise.
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And that's ok too.:D My chain of command were all engineers or combo inspectors, I'm the only one that came out of the electrical trade. Wanna guess who's opinion they're going to ask for?

And I also started to say that any homebuilder that would let you get away with that would be crazy, but now that you've said it, at least we agree on something.:D:D I would love to be there though when it was already on and someone else tried to turn it on again (that's assuming that if you're not going to run a three way up the stairs that you wouldn't waste your time running the same circuit up the stairs.)

And as Mr. Gump says "...and that's all I've got to say about that."
 
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cowboyjwc said:
And that's ok too.:D My chain of command were all engineers or combo inspectors, I'm the only one that came out of the electrical trade. Wanna guess who's opinion they're going to ask for?

And I started to say that any homebuilder that would let you get away with that would be crazy, but now that you've said it, at least we agree on something.:D:D

And as Mr. Gump says "...and that's all I've got to say about that."
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Push comes to shove, there's always the courts. 3-ways just aren't required.;)
 
This is the commentary after 250.8A in the 08 Handbook. FYI

Section 250.8 recognizes the use of machine screws and thread-forming machine screws as methods to connect grounding and bonding conductors. Limiting recognition to these types of screws as acceptable methods of connection also says that no other type of screw, such as a sheet metal screw or a wood screw, is permitted as a connection method. Listed pressure connectors, such as twist-on wire connectors that are not specifically listed for grounding, as well as those that are listed as grounding and bonding equipment, can be used for connection of grounding and bonding conductors. This 2008 Code revision clarifies that the use of listed pressure connectors other than those that are green in color is permitted for the connection of grounding and bonding conductors.
 
480sparky said:
Push comes to shove, there's always the courts. 3-ways just aren't required.;)
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That's true there is always the courts and I get paid to go to court.:grin:

But as one of the other handbooks says "....This rule has the effect of requiring 3-way switching for control of the lighting...." The NEC handbook says "Section 210.70 points out that adequate lighting and proper control and location of switching are as essential to the safety of occupants of dwelling units........as are proper wiring requirements."

Remember, Building and Safety.
 
cowboyjwc said:
That's true there is always the courts and I get paid to go to court.:grin:

But as one of the other handbooks says "....This rule has the effect of requiring 3-way switching for control of the lighting...." The NEC handbook says "Section 210.70 points out that adequate lighting and proper control and location of switching are as essential to the safety of occupants of dwelling units........as are proper wiring requirements."

Remember, Building and Safety.
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Have you adopted the handbook?
 
cowboyjwc said:
But as one of the other handbooks says "....This rule has the effect of requiring 3-way switching for control of the lighting...."
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It would be a bit silly, but surely if you wanted to you could have two light fixtures over the stairs, one controlled by a 2-way switch at the top of the stairs, the other controlled by a 2-way switch at the bottom of the stairs.

Cheers, Wayne
 
cowboyjwc said:
I already told you what my position is, I'm just letting you know that the people that write the code book agree with me.......
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If that's the case, why not write a proposal to that affect (I think the term is 'clarification') for the next code cycle and see if they truly agree? If so, then every inspector should be requiring 3-ways today, not just what's stated in the book.

How about a poll? Up for it? I'm game....;)
 
wwhitney said:
It would be a bit silly, but surely if you wanted to you could have two light fixtures over the stairs, one controlled by a 2-way switch at the top of the stairs, the other controlled by a 2-way switch at the bottom of the stairs.

Cheers, Wayne
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When I was a kid I remember going to an old 4-story building where in one end there were 4 doors that opened on this stairway and there was a pullchain keyless fixture at the top ceiling with a string hooked up to it and run through eyelet-type screws near each door so that a person could pull that heavy string and actually work that light. Now that was some yankee ingenuity, and it was single pull (single pole)!
 
wbalsam1 said:
When I was a kid I remember going to an old 4-story building where in one end there were 4 doors that opened on this stairway and there was a pullchain keyless fixture at the top ceiling with a string hooked up to it and run through eyelet-type screws near each door so that a person could pull that heavy string and actually work that light. Now that was some yankee ingenuity, and it was single pull (single pole)!
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I've seen plenty of those. Call 'em Farmer Jones' 3-ways. :wink:
 
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