Instaling Conduits Thru Fire rated Areas

[JWCELECTRIC]

I have a conduits running from one area to another, between the two areas is a stairway with 2hr rated walls on all sides. Does the conduit with wiring need to be a 2hr rated installation inside the stairway? I know I need to seal conduits penetrating the 2hr rated walls but does the NEC require the conduits to be 2hr rated? Thanks

- JWC

 

[wawireguy]

From what I've seen the conduit and the wire do not need to be 2hr rated. Don't believe there is such a thing. You'll need a listed fire stop method for your penetration of the firewall. Choose a fire stop manufacturer then get their book that lists all the applications. Probably could get by with a 3/8 to 1/2 gap around your conduit and fill it in with fire caulk. Book will show exactly what you should do though and will help you pass inspection if there are any questions asked.

 

[benaround]

JWC,

IMO, to keep it a 2 hr. rated area I would say ,Yes. Nothing to back it up. I didn't know

conduit had such ratings!!

 

[flatlander]

if you penetrate that fire rated assembly a thing to make sure is that you properly follow the instructions of the manufacture.
The biggest mistake I have seen is the improper use of the fire caulk. You just don't slap it on the surface. It needs a minimum depth and thickness to work

 

[bphgravity]

Based on your description, it appears the area you describe is a vertical exit enclosure. If this is the case, installing raceways in or through the enclosure is a violation of the Building Code. Please consult your local AHJ for some guidance.

 

[steve66]

Based on your description, it appears the area you describe is a vertical exit enclosure. If this is the case, installing raceways in or through the enclosure is a violation of the Building Code. Please consult your local AHJ for some guidance.

We've ran into this before too. Only conduits and wiring serving the stairwell are allowed to be ran into the stairwell.

Similar thing with HVAC. There is usually a dedicated unit for the stairwell, and no ducts penetrating the stairwell, except those that serve the stairwell.

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

We've ran into this before too. Only conduits and wiring serving the stairwell are allowed to be ran into the stairwell.

Similar thing with HVAC. There is usually a dedicated unit for the stairwell, and no ducts penetrating the stairwell, except those that serve the stairwell.

Steve,

Where can you site that in the code?

 

[cycotcskir]

Another consideration will be about who is going to inspect and how strict they are.

Most Mfg. of fire caulk will give you the book that tells you the type of penetration/sleeve/placement that is required for a certain level of compliance for your installation...

...but they often have a requirement for the installer of the system to be "qualified" and oftentimes that will mean that ou have taken THEIR course.

 

[dana1028]

Steve,

Where can you site that in the code?

Int'l. Building Code [IBC] 1020.1.2 Penetrations
Penetrations into and openings through an exit enclosure [stairwells] are prohibited except for required exit doors, equipment and ductwork necessary for independent pressurization, sprinkler piping, standpipes, electrical raceway for fire dept. communication systems and electrical raceway serving the exit enclosure and terminating in a steel box not exceeding 16 sq. inches.

 

[A-1Sparky]

They make Mineral-Insulated (MI) Cable that has either a 2 or 3 hour fire-rating. But I'm not sure if you would or could use it in this particular situation.

 

[bphgravity]

Int'l. Building Code [IBC] 1020.1.2 Penetrations
Penetrations into and openings through an exit enclosure [stairwells] are prohibited except for required exit doors, equipment and ductwork necessary for independent pressurization, sprinkler piping, standpipes, electrical raceway for fire dept. communication systems and electrical raceway serving the exit enclosure and terminating in a steel box not exceeding 16 sq. inches.

Also see Chapter 7 of the IBC and Section 1022 of the IBC (2009 Ed.)

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

As has been stated, there are other codes to be aware of. The Fire Code/Building Code is a code that a lot of jurisdictions modify or supplement. If I understand the OP, the walls he is describing are part of the fire barrier, which protect the exit enclosure (stairwell).


And has been mentioned, there are some jurisdictions that are not fully aware of the requirements...the building official may be depending on the electrical inspector, and the electrical inspector may be depending on the building official.

Unfortunately if something slips by, this does not absolve the installer from knowing the code(s).

 

[masterinbama]

Ran into this one with a very picky building inspector. We had 3 stairwells in a medical plaza (not a health care facility, doctors offices only). Fire marshal made the mechanical contractor add stairwell pressurization fans to all 3. we ran the circuits and FA controls in the center stairwell then through the top floor to the other 2. Building inspector said only the wiring for that particular stairwell could be in it. A little picky in my book but we changed it anyway.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Ran into this one with a very picky building inspector. We had 3 stairwells in a medical plaza (not a health care facility, doctors offices only). Fire marshal made the mechanical contractor add stairwell pressurization fans to all 3. we ran the circuits and FA controls in the center stairwell then through the top floor to the other 2. Building inspector said only the wiring for that particular stairwell could be in it. A little picky in my book but we changed it anyway.

Think of a fire in one stairwell knocking out the other stairwells, that is the reason he pursued the code.

 

[bphgravity]

I feel, and I'm sure Pierre would agree that electrical professionals need much more than just electrical training and education. We need nearly the comprehension level of building and fire codes as we do the electrical codes. There are simply too many aspects of our work that is not within the scope of the electical standards yet our responsibility.

Keep hitting the books...

 

[sandsnow]

I have a proposal to add a FPN in 240.24(F) regarding OCPD in over a stairway landing. My proposed FPN would refer the reader to the local bldg codes for items permitted in or penetrating stairwells.

Rejected on first go around, trying to convince them in the comment stage