Install fixture onto existing brick?

[Mr. Serious]

So, I don't think it's allowed to install a wall-mounted light fixture without a box behind it. Obviously, traditionally they were installed that way many decades ago. I previously posted about this issue, asking for a code reference, and someone said the thing to reference would be the manufacturer instructions.

My obvious course of action would be to check the instructions first, then. I have a customer that we re-wired the whole house, and it previously had a little battery-mounted light screwed to the brick next to the back door, but we came back with a surface-mounted round weatherproof box and a conduit coming out of the eaves to feed it. We painted the PVC conduit to match the box to make it look nice, but then the customer bought an outdoor lantern sconce for it, and it doesn't fit right on the box. I was thinking of getting a small sheet of steel or aluminum to put between the box and the fixture, to at least make it sit level, even if it still sticks out away from the wall because of the box. But, the customer thought about it for a couple of weeks while I was busy with other things, and then said he would strongly prefer the fixture be directly onto the brick.



Would you guys normally just screw the fixture directly to the brick and forget about having a box behind it? Or is there some trick you use, to get a box into existing 100-year-old bricks?

 

[Strathead]

So, I don't think it's allowed to install a wall-mounted light fixture without a box behind it. Obviously, traditionally they were installed that way many decades ago. I previously posted about this issue, asking for a code reference, and someone said the thing to reference would be the manufacturer instructions.

My obvious course of action would be to check the instructions first, then. I have a customer that we re-wired the whole house, and it previously had a little battery-mounted light screwed to the brick next to the back door, but we came back with a surface-mounted round weatherproof box and a conduit coming out of the eaves to feed it. We painted the PVC conduit to match the box to make it look nice, but then the customer bought an outdoor lantern sconce for it, and it doesn't fit right on the box. I was thinking of getting a small sheet of steel or aluminum to put between the box and the fixture, to at least make it sit level, even if it still sticks out away from the wall because of the box. But, the customer thought about it for a couple of weeks while I was busy with other things, and then said he would strongly prefer the fixture be directly onto the brick.

View attachment 2567978 View attachment 2567979

Would you guys normally just screw the fixture directly to the brick and forget about having a box behind it? Or is there some trick you use, to get a box into existing 100-year-old bricks?

You can cut a box in to the brick and use Steel City OWC clips to secure it. The problem is can you fish behind the brick to bring a cable in?

 

[infinity]

I would cut in the correct box into the brick and hold it in with a little mortar or construction adhesive. How you get the cable in there may be the hard part.

 

[Little Bill]

If the wire was coming out of the wall behind the light, I might lean towards mounting the light to the brick as the brick is noncombustible.
With the wire coming down the wall, I'm afraid you're stuck with some kind of box or siding block.

ETA: You might be able to get an Arlington siding block and keep the conduit. But instead of it connecting to the box, use UF wire and let the conduit come to just the top of the siding block then slide the wire behind the block and out the center of it.

 

[synchro]

A hundred year old home could be solid masonry construction where the brick is structural, and not just a single layer of brick for aesthetics with a wood structure behind it (aka brick veneer). The picture shows a quite narrow vertical section of brick wall that supports a lintel and what's above it, and cutting out brick for a box could possibly lead to cracking or other structural issues.
It might be OK but I just wanted to bring up a possible issue when considering options.

 

[LarryFine]

The light appears to be on the end of a wall, so there is no access to behind the brick, unless there is a hollow you can fish down into. Possible alternatives, in no particular order, are:

Bring the wire/conduit down on either side of the side of the wall and drill through the brick diagonally, either with or without a box for the light. You could even mount a second box where you enter the wall.

Drill upward at a steep angle with a bit long enough to exit the top of the brick. (I have several 3' long bits, 9/16" through 1-3/4" diameter.) We can't see what's above in the pic, so this may not be feasible.

Look for an Arlington 8161 box and get a light with a base that will fit.

 

[tthh]

Tell him the cost difference between the rerouting and brick cutting and just a backer plate on the fixture. That may change his mind. Frankly, if he was ok with the exterior conduit, he should be ok with the backer plate.

 

[hbiss]

I would build a block up out of Azek, as high as the box. Make it maybe a half inch bigger than the base of the fixture and cut out the center for the box. Route a channel to fit over the conduit. Put it over the box and mount your fixture.

-Hal

 

[tthh]

If he has any bricks, someone could build a mounting block surrounding the exterior box with a drain hole at the bottom.

 

[synchro]

I would build a block up out of Azek, as high as the box. Make it maybe a half inch bigger than the base of the fixture and cut out the center for the box. Route a channel to fit over the conduit. Put it over the box and mount your fixture.

-Hal

That sounds like a good option. With the uneven brick faces and gaps between the bricks, you really couldn't mount the fixture directly and shed water around the fixture base properly without something placed in between. Making up a weather resistant block with a flat surface like you mentioned, and having it surround the surface mount electrical box makes sense to me.

 

[Mr. Serious]

A hundred year old home could be solid masonry construction

Not on this house. The bricks are a veneer over horizontal sheathing boards, with 2x4 wall construction behind it. The inside walls are not completely finished yet, either, so there is still the option of cutting into them to get in the back, but it might also be possible to fish the wire down between the brick and the sheathing.

Azek

Azek? I haven't heard of it. I see a website offering several products. Which are you thinking of?

 

[LarryFine]

What is easier than using a box?

 

[hbiss]

Azek? I haven't heard of it. I see a website offering several products. Which are you thinking of?

Yeah, well I guess you have to be a carpenter. Azek offers a board product that is like and can be used just like regular 1x pine except it won't rot or have to be painted. Laminate three pieces into a block. They have glue for it. It'll last forever.

Home Depot and Lowes has it or a similar product.

What is easier than using a box?

Nothing- except the existing fixture won't sit on it.

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

Nothing- except the existing fixture won't sit on it.

Agreed, which is why I also suggested one that will.

 

[Mr. Serious]

You can cut a box in to the brick

What kind of special tools do you need, to do that? I could probably drill out all the mortar around a brick and remove the entire brick, with one to two hours of work. Then with two to three more hours, go to the store and buy some mortar to re-insert a portion of the brick after I break it apart with a hammer and chisel.

But I'm leaning towards that Arlington surface-mount box. It's not quite enough for the height of the fixture, but maybe would work.

 

[LarryFine]

But I'm leaning towards that Arlington surface-mount box. It's not quite enough for the height of the fixture, but maybe would work.

There are plenty of wall lights with round bases.

 

[hbiss]

There are plenty of wall lights with round bases.

Yeah, I can kinda agree with that. But I like to provide something where you don't have to find a fixture to fit, rather have the box suitable for what likely would be installed in that space.

-Hal

 

[GeorgeB]

Azek? I haven't heard of it. I see a website offering several products. Which are you thinking of?

Nor had I; it appears to be a company who bought TimberTech, one of the "Trex" competitors/

 

[hbiss]

Nor had I; it appears to be a company who bought TimberTech, one of the "Trex" competitors/

Without research all I know is that Azek has been around for a long time. Timber Tech is primarily deck material while Azek is a major player in siding and trim products.

-Hal