Installed a new LED photocell on some parking Lot lights with New Corn Cobb 150 Watt Replacement Bulbs. Breaker trips when Lights turn off. Why?

[AC\DC]

Do you have means to log current and see when it trips?
if you don’t have time and want to narrow down. I would put logger in panel and make sure you get an overload.
Then If you do move mid way and put logger in and narrow down that way. Take 10 minutes to set up each time depends on how far out of the way this job is.

 

[hillbilly1]

Along the lines of what AC/DC was suggesting, check total load at each pole, and see if one is drawing substantially more than the others. That should narrow it down if one of the fixtures is being a pig and failing.

 

[Norman Whittom]

Don't rule out a faulty photocell switch. Could be an internal fault that doesn't fully open the circuit. Even though it is a new from box.

Yes. It wouldn't be the 1st time I purchased something new out of the box that was trash. Going over there Monday to investigate the situation.

 

[Norman Whittom]

Do you have means to log current and see when it trips?
if you don’t have time and want to narrow down. I would put logger in panel and make sure you get an overload.
Then If you do move mid way and put logger in and narrow down that way. Take 10 minutes to set up each time depends on how far out of the way this job is.

I have a (1)clamp on meter. (1) Klein Meter that I purchased before I went to work in Sn Francisco in 2019 & (1) Meager meter. I can check Amp draw on the 1 Hot Leg. 120 Volt system. The LED Corn Cobb bulbs should have decreased the Amp draw. That's All I have to work with. If I can't do the job with these tools, they will have to send me back to the Union Hall. LOL

 

[Norman Whittom]

Sounds like it was fine till the photo eye was put it?

Yes. The photo cell that was in there was not rated for LED Lights. I put one in that is Rated or LED lights. That might be the problem. Trying to use the right thing. I will take another photo cell and check the Amp draw and check the breaker when I go out there Monday.

 

[LarryFine]

Next step could be to have the photocell control a contactor.

 

[ptonsparky]

Which Klein meter?

I like toys, er, tools.

 

[Norman Whittom]

Which Klein meter?

I like toys, er, tools.

Its not one I would buy again. Cost $50 at Lowes. Not a good one.

 

[Norman Whittom]

Next step could be to have the photocell control a contactor.

That's a good idea. I will be going out there Monday morning to check it out.

 

[Norman Whittom]

Along the lines of what AC/DC was suggesting, check total load at each pole, and see if one is drawing substantially more than the others. That should narrow it down if one of the fixtures is being a pig and failing.

I am working with a 120 volt system. I will check the Amp draw Monday morning and the rating on the Photo cell I installed. Since I installed the LED Bulbs I know the wattage is a lot lower than the HID bulbs I took out. Hard to imagine that amp draw is my problem. However I will check my with my Clamp on amp meter to be sure.

 

[curt swartz]

4 poles with (3) 150W lamps is 1,800 watts. That is pushing it for most photo cells. What size circuit is feeding these lights?

 

[kwired]

Yes. The photo cell that was in there was not rated for LED Lights. I put one in that is Rated or LED lights. That might be the problem. Trying to use the right thing. I will take another photo cell and check the Amp draw and check the breaker when I go out there Monday.

I don't think that has any relation to your breaker tripping situation. From what I can tell those LED rated ones are simply a new design with enhanced surge protection and other changes to increase life expectancy. They still rated to use with tungsten, magnetic or electronic ballasts or drivers as well. To your branch circuit they are still a low power draw control that operates a switch contact.

If you eliminated HID ballasts and lamps, make sure you didn't have heat damaged conductors that maybe were brittle and lost insulation and now have bare conductor somewhere that has an intermittent fault.

If you can't figure anything like this out maybe put in line fuse holder at each location, maybe it will take out a fuse when it happens again and helps narrow down the search area for the problem.

 

[TwistLock]

I'm waiting for Monday to hear about the last employee or cleaning crew shutting off the lights with the breaker before they leave. (lol)

 

[ptonsparky]

Its not one I would buy again. Cost $50 at Lowes. Not a good one.

You may not be able to do a FOP across the breaker with it. You need millivolt range.

 

[Norman Whittom]

I don't think that has any relation to your breaker tripping situation. From what I can tell those LED rated ones are simply a new design with enhanced surge protection and other changes to increase life expectancy. They still rated to use with tungsten, magnetic or electronic ballasts or drivers as well. To your branch circuit they are still a low power draw control that operates a switch contact.

If you eliminated HID ballasts and lamps, make sure you didn't have heat damaged conductors that maybe were brittle and lost insulation and now have bare conductor somewhere that has an intermittent fault.

If you can't figure anything like this out maybe put in line fuse holder at each location, maybe it will take out a fuse when it happens again and helps narrow down the search area for the problem.

Thanks. I like the in line fuse idea. My 1st call out there was for Lights not working at All. I did Find a Family of Dead Squirrels inside one of the poles with the wires all chewed up. Removed 3 Dead Squirrels and pulled new wire in the pole. Covered up the Top of the pole to prevent Squirrels from entering with our favorite fix all, Duct tape. Talk to the Store Owner this morning. Claims the Breaker didn't trip this weekend. Canceled Service Call. I will Keep everyone posted.

 

[AC\DC]

Was the breaker in trip position when you got there or in off?

 

[Norman Whittom]

The shop owner told me he had to reset the breaker in the evening time when it got dark. Noticed the lights were not on. Claims they worked fine this weekend. He canceled my Service call to check things out today when I talked to him.

 

[hillbilly1]

The shop owner told me he had to reset the breaker in the evening time when it got dark. Noticed the lights were not on. Claims they worked fine this weekend. He canceled my Service call to check things out today when I talked to him.

I’ve found when they say “reset breaker”, a lot of times it was turned off instead, and they just turned it back on. Sounding more and more like someone tampering with the breaker. I have seen that situation more than once. Disgruntled employees mainly, though occasionally an unsecured panel location outside. On one store I installed a monitor and locked the panel door, the other circuit was in another panel I did not lock. Only that circuit tripped instead of both in the middle of the day. I was still on site in the parking lot when I got the call. Breaker was turned off not tripped. They put cameras in over the panel area, and busted the pharmacist that was mad because they were closing the store.

 

[Norman Whittom]

This is a Family owned business. Only people there is the Father, Mother & the Son. Not sure if Mom or Son are disgruntled. Maybe.

 

[Norman Whittom]

Was the breaker in trip position when you got there or in off?

The Breaker was in the Off Position when I went to replace the Photo Cell 1 week before I got the call about the tripped Breaker.