Installing light fixtures in suspended ceilings

[flick]

I have a customer that wants to install suspended ceilings in a home rather than fix the plaster ceilings. This is a single family dwelling.

How do all of you support lay-in troffers in residences? Do you screw eyes into the lath and plaster?

Is there an approved way of installing standard ceiling type fixtures to dropped ceilings?

I'd like to hear what others do in this situation. I thought of cutting in a round old work box in the ceiling tile, but I wonder how I would be able to support such a box to the structure?

John

 

[Davis9]

I would use a Bar box w/set screw designed for a suspended ceiling and then secure the box w/jack chain to the ceiling above.

Tom

 

[mdshunk]

I do not seperately secure lay in fixtures under any circumstance. I do twist out the clips in the fixture to secure it to the grid, but there is no code in my area that has the force of lay that would require me to seperately secure the fixture to the framing above.

 

[iwire]

As Davis9 pointed out there are AG bars (Acoustical Grid Bar) available from many manufacturers.

I like these ones from Caddy

The pictures show 4" squares but you can just as easily use round boxes.

 

[mdshunk]

Yes, those box support bars for grid ceilings from Caddy are tops. T&B makes a nearly identical one. I havn't seen a grid ceiling paddle fan kit yet that I thought was worth 2 cents. I generally build some framing of my own above the grid and install a fan rated box.

 

[iwire]

I do twist out the clips in the fixture to secure it to the grid, but there is no code in my area that has the force of lay that would require me to seperately secure the fixture to the framing above.

What about 300.11(A)(2)?

 

[mdshunk]

What about 300.11(A)(2)?

What about 300.11(A)(2)(exception)? With the way the ceiling mechanics seem to always overdo the support wires, the exception can almost always be employed with major brand grid components. That's one reason why the fixture manufacturers give you those little clips that you can twist out of the fixture and secure it to the grid, in the event that you have a grid system that can employ that exception.

 

[iwire]

What about 300.11(A)(2)(exception)?

IMO the instructions from the grid manufacturer would have to indicate that suspending fixtures from the grid is permitted.

It's a non issue for me as the local amendments and often the specs require it directly.

All codes aside personally I could not leave the fixtures unsupported, IMHO it is dangerous.

 

[iwire]

I havn't seen a grid ceiling paddle fan kit yet that I thought was worth 2 cents.

I have never had to use one so I don't know.

I saw an ad for a fan bar box by Arlington, I thought it looked good.

Are they flimsy when you try to use them?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I have heard that there are some jurisdictions that the fire marshal wants the fixtures to come down with the ceiling when they are fighting fires.

 

[mdshunk]

Are they flimsy when you try to use them?

I'm not sure if "flimsy" is the right word or not. They are vertically very secure. The fixture is not coming down; that's for sure. Side to side, they have little support. The box still has a lot of "wobble" to it. I prefer that paddle fan boxes not only be vertically secure, but as free from wobble side-to-side as I can make it. For this reason, I build out my own structure above the ceiling to mount a traditional fan box. That said, I did a Subway sandwich shop that featured half a dozen paddle fans, and neither the time table or my bid permitted doing anything other than using a grid paddle fan kit and calling it good.

In my opinion, the market is wide open for grid boxes and supports of all sorts. There is much improvement to be had in that area, and many products to be invented, I'm sure. I have a couple drawn up that I plan to pass along to the guy at Smart Box, Inc.

 

[LarryFine]

I have heard that there are some jurisdictions that the fire marshal wants the fixtures to come down with the ceiling when they are fighting fires.

Interesting. I've heard (here, I believe) that the firemen don't want the fixtures to fall with the grid.

 

[stickboy1375]

Arlington makes it all! For T-bar suspended ceilings...

 

[e57]

Apparently someone (I forget who) around this forum claims to have designed that box bracket with the turnbuckle.

 

[memyselfandI]

I not only secure the fixture to the grid, but I also independently support the fixture from the grid. Securing to the grid keeps the fixture in place so as not to be sucked up into the ceiling during a pressure change in the air, and support them from the grid so in case of a fire, the fireman doesn't get injured by falling light fixtures when they have to pull the ceiling down. A little overkill, maybe. I know the firemen appreciate it though. It's what I call looking at the big picture.

 

[satcom]

"I have heard that there are some jurisdictions that the fire marshal wants the fixtures to come down with the ceiling when they are fighting fires."


They do not want the fixtures comming down, nor do they want the un supported cables comming down either, the cables have been known to get tied up with the air packs, and trapping the fireman, working the structure, one of the reasons they ask for seperate supports, on fixtures and cables, in my opinion your playing with fire, when you choose not to install the seperate supports.

 

[JohnJ0906]

Firefighters have enough danger without lights crashing down on them, wires entangling them, etc. Sometimes people just don't think.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Here we require 4 screws and two wires or chains to the structure above. I don't trust those clips. When I inspect I get a piece of EMT and poke at the fixtures to make sure that they don't move.

 

[stickboy1375]

You scratch em' you buy em'!

 

[cowboyjwc]

Then you better have them screwed down so I know they're secure. : )