Installing romex in a home

[iwire]

Yes. We need more electrical minds like yours in the trade.

In with the new and out with the old.

Mike, not sure what your trying to say there.

But it seems your concern for neatness exceeds your concern for good electrical circuit design and value to the customer.

The money you waste with your right angles could be used to provide more outlets for the customer which would in fact have a value to the customer.

To each his own. :smile:

 

[ceknight]

Mike, not sure what your trying to say there.

But it seems your concern for neatness exceeds your concern for good electrical circuit design and value to the customer.

I'm not Mike, but I read his posts endorsing other folks' posts, and I didn't read anything in them about his concern for neatness exceeding his concern for good design and value. He seemed to be applauding a couple of very reasonable posts from folks who said cable could be run quickly and safely without looking like complete crap.

If you have a problem with that, I'd say you've fallen off the deep end, Bob.

 

[iwire]

If you have a problem with that, I'd say you've fallen off the deep end, Bob.

Who says I have fallen, maybe I have always been there?

IMHO insisting concealed NM should be run perpendicular with framing members for ones own satisfaction or so the inspector thinks it's 'nice and pretty' is a poor choice. Circuit length and conservation of material rate much higher to me.


But I did say to each their own.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

There are Electricians out there who think that squaring off the runs and being neat is a "PRIDE" issue. They will eat a little of the profit to keep their pride, a novel idea, some even charge more.

There may still be some inspectors who feel that workmanship is degraded by the 'shortest means' install, but it has become that way around here about 25% of the installs I see.
I am sure with the state of the economy in NY we will see more of 'shortest means' installs.

Me, I hate to see the 'shortest means' installs, but I look past it for safety and keep on trucking. Inspecting for 110.12 is almost non-existent. That is why when I see a nice install, I let the men on the job and their owners know what I think of their excellent work and prideful manner.

 

[ceknight]

Who says I have fallen, maybe I have always been there?

IMHO insisting concealed NM should be run perpendicular with framing members for ones own satisfaction or so the inspector thinks it's 'nice and pretty' is a poor choice.......

I'm working from memory here, I think this is one of the posts Mike replied to yesterday, though you may have deleted it thinking it was a duplicate (Mike's text was the same, but the quote he was responding to was different?):

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=882231&postcount=30

That is the middle ground position: there isn't that much difference in time, design, or opportunity costs between running a fast and loose right angle or running a diagonal. You can wire quickly and efficiently without being anally-retentive about your right angles or your diagonals, and without the job looking like it was done by crazed pieceworkers in San Diego County...

--

Personally, I don't much care. I don't do new construction, when I'm running cable the finished wall's usually already up.

 

[iwire]

Me, I hate to see the 'shortest means' installs, but I look past it for safety and keep on trucking.

Cool.

Honestly I don't like how it looks either. :smile:

But from an electrical safety standpoint the less footage of live conductors in a building the less likely there will be a problem. That is not arguable, it is a fact. (Of course this assumes the guy doing the direct route follows the codes for support and protection etc)

From an electrical standpoint shorter circuit have less voltage drop and power waste due to resistance.

From a conservation standpoint we will use less natural resources and save ourselves money.

So while there are a few very good reasons to go the most direct route possible the only reason not to is 'cause it looks ugly' which will never be seen once the rock goes up. :smile:

 

[iwire]

I think this is one of the posts Mike replied to yesterday, though you may have deleted it thinking it was a duplicate (Mike's text was the same, but the quote he was responding to was different?):

I will go back and look, if it is not a duplicate I will put it back. :smile:

 

[growler]

Im not sure if I can run the wires in diaganols. I work in 4 different counties so it could varie between them. I would like to start doing it though, because of time money and voltage drop. I guess i Need to talk to the electrical inspectors first so I don't do a 6000 square foot house and then have him say "hey you cant do that because its not in a neat workman like manner"Guys I'm not kidding I had an inspector 4 or 5 months ago take his tape measure to see if my romex was stapled within 12 inches of the box

The thing to do ( other than get experience ) is to go around and look at some of the other homes being wired in the area and see how they look. Around here they don't give a darn about diagonals. That's just not what they are looking for.

As far as secureing cable within 12 inches of a box there is a code to cover that. Most residential electricians will staple even closer than that to maintain 1 1/4 inches from the edge of the stud.

Anything that would be considered unsafe such as not useing nail guards when needed will get you failed. Not making up grounds or failing to bond metal boxes.

A job can look neat without spending a lot of time on it. Spend as much time as needed to make sure the job is Safe.

 

[Minuteman]

Diagonals in the studs are allowed here, but in the attic you need to pretty much follow the framing members.

 

[hillbilly1]

And of course there is this guys work.

Looks like this guy needed some cable tray!

 

[76nemo]

Who the frig would want my opinion??? Post's #38, 42, 44 was already written. I don't have to say anymore

 

[brian john]

While I do not residential, I do testing and follow up work on projects completed by others. Years ago I performed the acceptance testing on a large international government sponsored organization. The electrical install looked like a piece of art, beautiful rigid and EMT runs 3 high voltage feeders main tie main, secondary of all transformers were main tie main with multiple generator back up. The switchboards had been waxed with DuPont car wax.

The electricians received a craftsmanship award for the project and accolades from everyone. Problem was nothing worked, from the cooling fans on the transformers to any of the controls main tie main or generator controls. GFP was a total mess, and even the panel meters were improperly connected.

Beauty ain't everything.

 

[George Stolz]

In my experience, the faster more efficient romex jobs tend to look neater anyway, ironically, just due to experience. One event that comes to mind is when a former MA guy and myself raced a couple other guys roping a duplex. We were done at the end of the day (except for the service and basement) ours was neat and clean, and theirs looked horrible, and they were about half done.

I think it just comes down to experience and pride in your work. Diagonal runs don't have to look like Joe Homeowner did it.

 

[76nemo]

While I do not residential, I do testing and follow up work on projects completed by others. Years ago I performed the acceptance testing on a large international government sponsored organization. The electrical install looked like a piece of art, beautiful rigid and EMT runs 3 high voltage feeders main tie main, secondary of all transformers were main tie main with multiple generator back up. The switchboards had been waxed with DuPont car wax.

The electricians received a craftsmanship award for the project and accolades from everyone. Problem was nothing worked, from the cooling fans on the transformers to any of the controls main tie main or generator controls. GFP was a total mess, and even the panel meters were improperly connected.

Beauty ain't everything.

Whaaaa, Brian threw that out 180 degrees. Very nice point!!!! Your last sentence rings out so true!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LarryFine]

In my experience, the faster more efficient romex jobs tend to look neater anyway, ironically, just due to experience.

Absolutely!

 

[c2500]

Spoken like a true artist. Most artists make their real money after they're dead. I'd like to make mine now doing electrical work and not artwork.

Marc,

You have some profound insight!:grin:

c2500

 

[JohnE]

There's a few guys here that do it that way too. That sorta aggravates me, because I have to use a ceiling box other than my normal one. I like to use Union ceiling boxes, that have the nailing bracket on top. Too high to nail on the side of strapping, but they work okay to nail on the joist, then you need to gauge how low to let them hang.

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but we use the same Union ceiling boxes you described and we just fasten them to a 2x4 and span 2 strappings to fasten them.

 

[JohnE]

I used to pull diagonal, and I agree it can look neat. I went to right angles about 6 years ago mostly because the guys working for me couldn't seem to get the diagonal thing to look neat. (IMO, which is all that mattered) But they could manage to make the right angles look good.

 

[tonyou812]

Im going to start running in diagonals. I'm sure i can make that look good too. I want to make more money and save time. Not running things straight will go against the grain but I will just have to do it.

I totally agree with Marc, I have to remind myself sometimes not to get to fussy especially when your being bid out by lowballers and truck slammers.