installing with existing violations

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For what what it's worth I think you did the right thing. I don't think I would ever be willing to hook up my wires to the wrong color wires. If something ever goes wrong in that circuit you extended how do you explain it?

Anyway don't worry there are plenty of shady electricians out there, as evident by this thread, who are willing to do anything as long as they get paid. They will come in a do the work.
 
dcspector said:
From the OP this is not a residence where un qualified persons (as in HO's) are on the site.
Click to expand...

And "Maintenance Workers" are qualified?:grin:

Seriously though, there are many in Maint. that are "Electrical Workers", rather than Electricians (as I am sure you all know), many of them can't even wire a 3-Way.

The way we do it here is basically, "If you touched it, it's yours" (not meant to be completely literal). This means that if you splice onto an existing black Noodle, then you need to make it white, if you see space available in a wall penetration through a fire-rated wall that isn't caulked and you use that hole, you own it, and must make it up to standards. If you use a trough that is missing covers, supports, or corner pieces, then you must fix it or use another route.

This, of course, doesn't alpply to troubleshooting and simply opening a splice to test, only if you add to the existing.

There is room for debate in this, of course. It is not meant to be a costly burden on the contractor or customer, just a way to fix deficiencies.
 
Well cyco.....good point are maintenance workers qualified? Dunno...lets look at other section numbers that mention qualified personnel only.... 200.6(E) exception 1.....250.119.(B)....Those were just a few examples. Who is to say whom is qualified or not regardless of maintenance? I may realize that most are not. Let's look at definition of qualified persons see Definitions Article 100....see my point? I agree that most "Maintenace staff / personnel" are not, but not my decision to determine that.
 
DC,

I have known many "maintenance electricians" that were less qualified than a 1st year apprentice. I realize that the definition of "Qualified" is sketchy at best, but that is why we operate the way we do with regards to the, "if you touch it, it's yours". We don't want anyone getting hurt or worse. We also need to keep up with the world of electrical safety regarding building wiring and such.

That's why I think that certifications and testing are a good ways to HELP keep out the unqualified workers. There are those who slip through the cracks, but how else can you attempt to maintain a minimum level of knowledge within any trade.

I know... in a perfect world...

I also try not to judge whether someone is qualified or not, but after talking to someone for a minute or two, you can usually tell if they know what they are talking about.
 
installing with existing violations

For the electrician -a story that to make us all say "wait a minute".
This job apparently has a dropped cieling as part of it-This we can figure from the initial description of what the posting elec saw that first prompted his concern.
I recall a story -happened a few years ago here on L.I.,N.Y -Sears store -maintanence work-dropped cieling- something as simple as bulb replacement being done--bottom line was a bad grounding situation had at some point occurred-involved the cieling grid and a flourescent fixture-and now there was a dead maintanence worker-as I said -he was changing bulbs- They are allowed to do that .
Now ,if you were the last electrician on the job,and in the course of doing what you had been asked to do you discovered something was in violation-it may have had nothing to do with your assigned work order,or you may have found a different way to accomplish your atsk without touching the existing violation-and then we have this happen-..,Idon't think I have to go any further-.
I realize others might have been there before you and after you--and for the sake of this point I'm also leaving out any discussion of liability-
I'm saying how would you feel..., if you hadn't done all you could do --
Isn't that what makes an Electrician a step above the rest...,A qualified person,or as I remember from when I first came on-"isn't that what makes us 'the cream of the crop'"?
Rest assured I don't say that with any sarcasm-I believe that electricians are a step above.
 
Isn't it against code to phase any thing smaller than #6, and when you do use a white conductor for a switch leg, the white has to be the feed conductor to the switch, if its possible to pull in the proper conductor color than its against code to use white as a switch leg.
im looking for articles
 
I have refused work without offering to fix violations even after I had an hour or two committed to the job.

NO PROBLEM

I worked too hard for my license to add work to jack-leg BS
 
rjohnsonmasterelectrician said:
isn't it against code to phase any thing smaller than #6, and when you do use a white conductor for a switch leg, the white has to be the feed conductor to the switch, if its possible to pull in the proper conductor color than its against code to use white as a switch leg.
Im looking for articles
Click to expand...

200.6, 250.119
 
Well said MTHead,

I personally try to work this way, sometimes the issue is too extensive to be corrected without a major overhaul. Unfortunately many people (including some Electricians) don't realize what could happen if things are left in a bad state.

That was part of my point, many Maint people aren't qualified for electrical work, but are required to do it. There are some, like you said, that are just doing something that is well within their qualification and can still get hurt.

In my experience, you are mostly right, Electricians are usually a "cut above" and they make sure that things are safe. This makes me think that it -probably- wasn't an electrician that caused the incident you stated.

We, as electricians, need to keep in the forefront of our minds that many people will be following us and that there is plenty risk to those that follow. If we see an issue, take a few minutes and fix it.

This is closely related (but more serious) to a statement that I have adopted from an old Mechanic of mine, "Don't screw the next guy, cause it might be you"
 
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