Insulated pool or spa motor question

[Buck Parrish]

In regards to the equipment ground on the male plug of the motor. Does this attach or bond the housing of the motor? Some pool and spa motors have a lug on the housing of the motor for an additional #8 equipotential ring or in a tub just a #8 back to the panel.

A situation came up that made me wonder if the motor housing is connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the motor.

Why call it double insulated? That made me think maybe the equipment ground in not attached to the motors housing or case

 

[ActionDave]

The motor will either be double insulated or have an EGC connected to the frame of the motor. Both kinds have a lug to attach the equi-potential bonding wire. In the case of a double insulated motor it is there in case the motor gets replaced with one that isn't double insulated.

 

[Buck Parrish]

The motor will either be double insulated or have an EGC connected to the frame of the motor. Both kinds have a lug to attach the equi-potential bonding wire. In the case of a double insulated motor it is there in case the motor gets replaced with one that isn't double insulated.

How do you know which one is which? The one I'm dealing with has a grd lug on it. But from there it goes to a metal frame of a tub.

So I'm wondering if the metal frame is bonded thru the motors equipment ground or if the lug is there to bond the metal housing of the motor.

 

[ActionDave]

The equi-potential bonding wire bonds all the metal parts of a spa or pool together, it is not an equipment grounding conductor, it does not have to connect to the electrical panel equipment ground buss because it is not intended to clear a fault.

A pump motor that is not double insulated will have an EGC that is intended to clear a fault so it must connect to the motor frame somewhere and must go back to the electrical panel and thereby will indirectly connect the EGC to the equi-potential wire. They are two different wires doing two different things. A spa pump motor that is double insulated doesn't have an EGC, usually has a plastic base, and is marked with the square inside a square symbol or says double insulated on the nameplate.

This is one of the reasons I am against the current trend of people wanting to change equipment grounding conductor to bonding conductor.

 

[kwired]

The equi-potential bonding wire bonds all the metal parts of a spa or pool together, it is not an equipment grounding conductor, it does not have to connect to the electrical panel equipment ground buss because it is not intended to clear a fault.

A pump motor that is not double insulated will have an EGC that is intended to clear a fault so it must connect to the motor frame somewhere and must go back to the electrical panel and thereby will indirectly connect the EGC to the equi-potential wire. They are two different wires doing two different things. A spa pump motor that is double insulated doesn't have an EGC, usually has a plastic base, and is marked with the square inside a square symbol or says double insulated on the nameplate.

This is one of the reasons I am against the current trend of people wanting to change equipment grounding conductor to bonding conductor.

I assume you mean change definitions as applied to NEC. If so I agree. I know sometimes these terms are confusing, but I still believe it all comes down to understanding what the item in question is intended to do and why. You can change names all you want I think the confusion will just follow the change, might clear one thing up but will add confusion somewhere else until you understand the what and why.

 

[Buck Parrish]

The equi-potential bonding wire bonds all the metal parts of a spa or pool together, it is not an equipment grounding conductor, it does not have to connect to the electrical panel equipment ground buss because it is not intended to clear a fault.

A pump motor that is not double insulated will have an EGC that is intended to clear a fault so it must connect to the motor frame somewhere and must go back to the electrical panel and thereby will indirectly connect the EGC to the equi-potential wire. They are two different wires doing two different things. A spa pump motor that is double insulated doesn't have an EGC, usually has a plastic base, and is marked with the square inside a square symbol or says double insulated on the nameplate.

This is one of the reasons I am against the current trend of people wanting to change equipment grounding conductor to bonding conductor.

Well thanks. I know what the difference from the equipotential and the equipment grounding conductor is. How ever it does look like you answered my question about how to tell which motor is double insulated or not. Thanks
I had a metal frame that was factory bonded to the motor. I was just trying to figure out if the bond was coming from the motor equipment ground or if I needed to run the #8 back to the panel. This is for a spa. So it's not a equipotential wire. It's just a metal frame.
Trying to avoid the redundant grounding / bonding. But still want to be safe.

 

[kwired]

Well thanks. I know what the difference from the equipotential and the equipment grounding conductor is. How ever it does look like you answered my question about how to tell which motor is double insulated or not. Thanks
I had a metal frame that was factory bonded to the motor. I was just trying to figure out if the bond was coming from the motor equipment ground or if I needed to run the #8 back to the panel. This is for a spa. So it's not a equipotential wire. It's just a metal frame.
Trying to avoid the redundant grounding / bonding. But still want to be safe.

It is for any required equipotential bonding. Not all spas will require additional equipotential bonding but pretty much all them have a lug to connect to should it be necessary.

All that needs run back to the panel is an EGC sized per 250.122 for the branch circuit supplying the spa, even if it is less than 8 AWG.

 

[Buck Parrish]

It is for any required equipotential bonding. Not all spas will require additional equipotential bonding but pretty much all them have a lug to connect to should it be necessary.

All that needs run back to the panel is an EGC sized per 250.122 for the branch circuit supplying the spa, even if it is less than 8 AWG.

This is not a equipotential bond like a pool. It's simply a indoor tub with motor, heater and metal frame., I just want to make sure it is bonded. This county has no inspections. But I still do every thing safe.

 

[kwired]

This is not a equipotential bond like a pool. It's simply a indoor tub with motor, heater and metal frame., I just want to make sure it is bonded. This county has no inspections. But I still do every thing safe.

It is a hydromassage bathtub per definitions in 680.2

Take a look at 680.74 there are items that possibly need to be bonded at times.