Interesting conversation with other EC

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To sum up his main complaint was. He pays the same as the union. They charge $30 less an hour. They can make a profit because they have 15 JW.
Small profit but large volume.
He losing jobs left and right he said.

If that is how they work I don’t see it working for a very long time. A couple jobs go wrong and your boned. No matter how good you are there will always be problem, your job is to make them as limited as possible. They are a well established company but the businesses has transferred to many hands through the year.

like electrofeln said, let them have the crumbs I would rather hang out with my family.
 
Around here we talk with each other from time to time to make sure we are all on the same page and our prices are within the same ballpark from each other.

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Colluding with other ECs to drive out competition is called a trust. It’s what anti-trust law is all about and it’s highly illegal...as in jail time, if you get caught.
 
Its much simpler to prosecute contractors locally for avoiding workmen's compensation, unemployment contributions, under-reported payroll, lacking building permits, or licensing, than to expect action from some defunded Citizen Complaint Center, of the Antitrust Division, at the Department of Justice.

The US DOJ typically deals with federal matters; its an executive branch political tool, anti-regulation under Republican administrations, or exhausting their resources prosecuting banks & Ponzi schemes under Democrat administrations.
 
ramsy said:
Its much simpler to prosecute contractors locally for avoiding workmen's compensation, unemployment contributions, under-reported payroll, lacking building permits, or licensing, than to expect action from some defunded Citizen Complaint Center, of the Antitrust Division, at the Department of Justice.

The US DOJ typically deals with federal matters; its an executive branch political tool, anti-regulation under Republican administrations, or exhausting their resources prosecuting banks & Ponzi schemes under Democrat administrations.
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Hate to tell you, but both administrations use it to punish their political opponents, not to help the people.
 
Feels like all of the ISP’s and streaming services are doing this. I have no proof and it’s just my cynical side but dang if the prices don’t keep climbing in lockstep together.
 
Kind of like the OPEC cartel openly does price fixing without consequence.

Maybe cartels are legal, or rules don't apply to the Uber Rich, and Al Capone.

Regardless of complete regulatory failures, the point of that article on price-fixing still informs us who becomes a target.
 
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paulengr said:
Colluding with other ECs to drive out competition is called a trust. It’s what anti-trust law is all about and it’s highly illegal...as in jail time, if you get caught.
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Not really.
Not in all instances in the world of economics.

What else can you call it when companies set prices that they can set at a certain level.
This may sound like “riding against the wind” of free enterprise principles and even violate government regulation against ANTI TRUST LAWS.
It comes with unfavorable effect not only to consumers but the whole industry as well.
Take the oil industry for example. We often read in the headlines that OPEC is raising the price of crude oil. This is an outright violation of anti-trust law if you think about it.

But hold on to your horses.

Keeping the price at a certain level is necessary (and agreed upon) by OPEC members. Only through this measure--in order to keep the industry alive and keep people employed.
At this point, oil is priced (last time I checked) at $40 a barrel. At this price—it is survivable. Anything lower than that will make oil unprofitable--that oil companies would rather shut down.
Running OIL WELLS, and extracting oil from sand like they do in Canada is a very expensive process.

I don’t advocate unreasonable increases on crude oil-- because like others --I don’t have a limitless pile of money to pay for high prices. But there is a limit on everything. If OPEC cannot agree on pricing --they may shut down and keep us out in the cold.

I’m not a big investor in OIL STOCK but my investment should keep me from sinking and end up pitching tents in the sidewalks of L.A.

I’m sure a whole bunch of small-time contractors are still using gas powered service trucks to put “bacon” on the table.
 
paulengr said:
Colluding with other ECs to drive out competition is called a trust. It’s what anti-trust law is all about and it’s highly illegal...as in jail time, if you get caught.
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He's not talking about creating a monopoly, he's talking about protecting a pricing structure. And it needs to happen more
 
Want some real answers? Ask the experts :D
www.ftc.gov

Price Fixing

Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors to raise, lower, maintain, or stabilize prices or price levels.
www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

James L said:
He's not talking about creating a monopoly, he's talking about protecting a pricing structure.
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That itself becomes a problem.

"Generally, the antitrust laws require that each company establish prices and other terms on its own, without agreeing with a competitor."
"A plain agreement among competitors to fix prices is almost always illegal, whether prices are fixed at a minimum, maximum, or within some range."

Whether or not it's legal is one thing; whether or not it's ethical you have to answer yourself.

And before we get into the "free market" idea, most markets aren't free in that sense- when the choice is from only a few vendors, or only one, there isn't much choice once you get past the "do I buy or not?" question.
 
ramsy said:
Kind of like the OPEC cartel openly does price fixing without consequence.

Maybe cartels are legal, or rules don't apply to the Uber Rich, and Al Capone.

Regardless of complete regulatory failures, the point of that article on price-fixing still informs us who becomes a target.
Click to expand...
Oh, and who is going to prosecute OPEC? What international law have they violated? The Sherman Anti-Trust Act is US law and doesn't apply outside US jurisdictions. It's a bit parochial of US citizens to expect that the laws we live under apply to the whole world.
 
Good point.

My point in post #28 was, it's easier to prosecute contractors for violating local employment laws, than some anti-trust issue requiring Federal jurisdiction.

While investors study OPEC's regulatory and competitive environment, a discussion of international trade regulation might start with a history of GATT, WTO, and Continental treaties.
 
zbang said:
Want some real answers? Ask the experts :D
www.ftc.gov

Price Fixing

Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors to raise, lower, maintain, or stabilize prices or price levels.
www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov


That itself becomes a problem.

"Generally, the antitrust laws require that each company establish prices and other terms on its own, without agreeing with a competitor."
"A plain agreement among competitors to fix prices is almost always illegal, whether prices are fixed at a minimum, maximum, or within some range."

Whether or not it's legal is one thing; whether or not it's ethical you have to answer yourself.
Click to expand...
The end result is that it's no different from going to a sales seminar with several competitors and learning the same information. It's no different from using the same pricing book or program, which are both going to tell you how much you charge.

But quite honestly, many times it would be non competitors who are getting together and encouraging each other.

I have a buddy of mine who lives on the East End of the metro area. All of my work is on the southwest corner of the metro area. He doesn't want to come where I work, and I don't want to go where he works.

He called me a few weeks ago about pricing a a new home to wire. He had somebody who suggested he charged $3,000 for labor only. I told him we should count up all the openings and charged accordingly. Well, that opening count took his price up to $8,400

So he called the other guy back and told him I had said $8,400. They're the guy said I was crazy. So here was my buddy, caught between two people with wildly diverse pricing

I told my buddy that if he didn't ask for $8,400, don't ever call me and ask for pricing help again.

Guess what? He told the customer $8,400 and he got the job. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. People are slicing their own throats for no reason. And most customers will hand you the knife to do it
 
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