Inventive ways to catch unpermitted work

[cowboyjwc]

I my area the requirement for a permit is not based on the job size or cost, never heard of not enough to have to permit, that sounds like some something one of the slick want to be GC would say, they all think permits are for others, and without a permit and inspection, they can continue to do their hack work.

Yep two can lights would require a permit here too.

 

[hillbilly1]

I my area the requirement for a permit is not based on the job size or cost, never heard of not enough to have to permit, that sounds like some something one of the slick want to be GC would say, they all think permits are for others, and without a permit and inspection, they can continue to do their hack work.

In that paticular jurisdiction, the job had to be worth $500 or more before a permit was required. I was working directly for the owner, there was no general contractor.

 

[hillbilly1]

I wired a plant two years ago in a medium size city, I was the only trade on the entire job that had a permit. They came and did inspections, and didn't say a thing about all of the refrigeration piping, wall building and plumbing going on all around me

 

[satcom]

In that paticular jurisdiction, the job had to be worth $500 or more before a permit was required. I was working directly for the owner, there was no general contractor.

Every area may have their own requirements, and you will have to comply with those requirements, but one thing that can bit you back, is is a permit and inspection is required and you fail to get one, and something happens on that job, you may end up holding the bag for all the liability and any related costs, the owner will not be the one on the loosing end, the contractor will.

 

[Rewire]

Every area may have their own requirements, and you will have to comply with those requirements, but one thing that can bit you back, is is a permit and inspection is required and you fail to get one, and something happens on that job, you may end up holding the bag for all the liability and any related costs, the owner will not be the one on the loosing end, the contractor will.

Insurance companies are checking more closely to see if work was done without a permit to deny claims.

 

[Rampage_Rick]

I live in a rural area where the only inspection required is for septic tanks.

Big stink up here in regards to dropping requirements to have septic tanks designed and installed by licensed professionals. Work now must be done under the supervision of a professional, but they're worried about "stamps of convenience."

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Group+fears+sewer+laws+poison+water/3330827/story.html

We also have electrical permit fees tied to the value of the work. Since contractor and homeowner permit fees are different, I wonder if they've taken into account the difference in materials cost between wholesale and retail pricing. For example, if I pull a permit as a homeowner but submit values from my wholesaler, would they notice? (I'm a small fry but I get the big boy's pricing; perks of helping wholesaler move twice) They must check occasionally, because they do threaten double fees if they find you've under-valued the permit. Then again, when Big Orange opens up in town, everyone will be getting low low prices.

I love references to Holmes on Homes. Mike's our Norm Abram, and was voted the second most trusted person in Canada. I actually met Mike in person back in 2003 at the upswing of his popularity. At least he rarely wears plaid.

 

[Ravenvalor]

My Two Cents Worth

My Two Cents Worth

One of our founding fathers who was also an electricity enthusiast of sorts once wrote.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

If we follow God's law (Natural law) we will not need so much regulation in our lives.

Follow the history.
1) Our Early American History.
2) Early Anglo-Saxon Law.
3) Ancient Israeli Law.
4) The teachings of the ancient philosopher Cicero.

 

[BillyM]

ceb58

ceb58

You could always use google earth. Still we all know it's a money game for taxing.

 

[c10charles]

Unpermitted Work

Unpermitted Work

Do you think that homeowners want to pay $178.50 to get a water heater change out permit or a service change out in San Jose (Silicon Valley)? This is the basic fee for on-line permits that only apply to single family homes not condo's or townhouses. Try and pass that on to the customer.

A study was just done by UC Berkeley that found only 3% of the furnace/a-c replacements/additions had permits for this work in Calif. Gee, I wonder why. Three permits for that: electrical, plumbing and mechanical.

I just got a permit to replace my exterior front stairs on my San Francisco house. This is a 2 story stucco stairway that should be inspected. Only problem is, any house in S.F. over 50 years old is now historic. If you have been to S.F. 90% of the house are over 50 years old and many are just historic dumps. So I have to go to the planning dept. 1st to get approval. Engineered plan and photo and no changes allowed, or I go thru 2 more levels of planning approval. Then, I go to the building dept. with the signed off drawing from the planning dept. Then I have 4 inspections for a permit cost of $850 plus the engineer's drawing, $974. This is probably comming to other big cities. You wonder why unlicensed contractors (many illegal aliens in Calif.) get work from homeowners that don't want permits. Just drive thru Home Depot (or Lowes) at 7AM. Try and fine them.

 

[satcom]

Insurance companies are checking more closely to see if work was done without a permit to deny claims.

Yup, the insurance companies are the reason we have permits and inspections, the only reason the cities get involved, is to protect the city insurance underwriter ratings, that determine what you will pay for coverages, and the cities or towns without inspection departments, the homeowners, will end up paying more for insurance, I often wonder why, people think their local government, runs the inspections to raise revenue, it costs money to operate these inspections.

 

[jjs]

All the constitution and freedom talk sounds fine, but it may be you don't understand why we have inspections, and it has nothing to do with the rights or freedom, it is your insurance underwriters and risk loss prevention, the reason we have inspections and codes. I have no idea why people think the gov are the ones requiring inspections.

Then the insurance companies should come out and inspect it before giving insurance on the place. Then we can get the gov't inspectors of the roles of the public and get them to be productive members(as in producing something, not as in being lazy) of society.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Yup, the insurance companies are the reason we have permits and inspections, the only reason the cities get involved, is to protect the city insurance underwriter ratings, that determine what you will pay for coverages, and the cities or towns without inspection departments, the homeowners, will end up paying more for insurance, I often wonder why, people think their local government, runs the inspections to raise revenue, it costs money to operate these inspections.

Good call. We charge $82 for a minimum fee permit, and you can bet that we lose money on every service change, water heater, and FAU change out. Depending on how you city is set up, most Building and Safety departments, which your city is required to have by law, are self funding and are not allowed to make an excessive profit.

Your permit fee does not just pay for the inspector, it pays for his vehicle, the counter staff, the code books he has, his phones, computer, tools, etc.

The small guys can't figure out what they pay us for when they only see us for 10 or 15 minutes, but we're doing a new Target store and most days I'm there for at least an hour and a half.

 

[Ravenvalor]

In the end the gov are the ones requiring inspections.

In the end the gov are the ones requiring inspections.

All the constitution and freedom talk sounds fine, but it may be you don't understand why we have inspections, and it has nothing to do with the rights or freedom, it is your insurance underwriters and risk loss prevention, the reason we have inspections and codes. I have no idea why people think the gov are the ones requiring inspections.

If I may permit myself to quote another one of our founding fathers who wrote about the topic that we are discussing now.

"For it is truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those [toward] whom they entertain the least suspicion." (Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Papers, No. 25, p. 164.)

Thomas Jefferson also struck out with all the force that tongue could muster against trusting in human nature when he said.

"It would be a dangerous delusion were a confidence in the men of our choice to silence our fears for the safety of our rights; that confidence is everywhere the parent of despotism; free government is founded in jealousy, and not in confidence; it is jealousy, and not confidence which prescribes limited constitutions to bind down those whom we are obliged to trust with power; that our Constitution has accordingly fixed the limits to which, and no farther, our confidence may go.... In questions of power, then let no more be said of confidence in man, BUT BIND HIM DOWN FROM MISCHIEF BY THE CHAINS OF THE CONSTITUTION."
(The Kentucky Resolutions of 1798, Annals of America, emphasis added.)

 

[Joey12]

Non-permitted work

Non-permitted work

There are a lot of contractors that want to follow the rules and some that are just busting others because they lost the job. Either way the legit contractors police non-permitted pretty good along with the Building department.

 

[LarryFine]

The small guys can't figure out what they pay us for when they only see us for 10 or 15 minutes . . .

Many customers have the same perspective.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Many customers have the same perspective.

That's because they don't know what we do.:roll:

Here's a question for all of you, and yes I am hijacking this tread (if the moderators would like to move this that's fine.)

I you were installing a new receptacle in a bedroom using a plastic box with #14 NMC attached to a 15 amp breaker, how many code sections would apply to this inspection?

Let your imaginations run wild.

 

[satcom]

That's because they don't know what we do.:roll:

Here's a question for all of you, and yes I am hijacking this tread (if the moderators would like to move this that's fine.)

I you were installing a new receptacle in a bedroom using a plastic box with #14 NMC attached to a 15 amp breaker, how many code sections would apply to this inspection?

Let your imaginations run wild.

If they do think about what it takes to inspect that one receptacle, they may just understand that an inspectors job is not a do nothing job, they think it is.

 

[cowboyjwc]

If they do think about what it takes to inspect that one receptacle, they may just understand that an inspectors job is not a do nothing job, they think it is.

And that sounds like you are already on the right track.

 

[kwired]

That's because they don't know what we do.:roll:

Here's a question for all of you, and yes I am hijacking this tread (if the moderators would like to move this that's fine.)

I you were installing a new receptacle in a bedroom using a plastic box with #14 NMC attached to a 15 amp breaker, how many code sections would apply to this inspection?

Let your imaginations run wild.

They don't want to pay an installer what he is worth if he knows all the answers to your question either.

 

[adelle]

The only way to enforce this would be to limit the sale of electrical supplies (and plumbing for that matter) to wholesale houses which would only strictly sell to licensed professionals.

Yeah, that's gonna happen! Can you say "lobbiest"? How many billions are Home Depot and Lowes worth? No way in H would that ever get through.

And what about the wholesale houses? That ever so popular sign saying they sell only to the trade should read "They only sell to people with money". I guess they display that sign to make the OEMs happy.

Now they did somewhat do this with Freon sales. But anybody with half a brain can easily get a tank of R22 with little effort. And then the EPA test is basically filling out a form from what I hear.

So any attempt to curb DIY non-permitted work is fruitless.