IPC 240.36

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don_resqcapt19

Moderator
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Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
See the definition of "tap conductor" in the beginning of article 240
That is a specific term that only applies within Article 240. That is still the case with the 2023 code even though the definition is found in Article 100. "Tap" is also a generic term and can be used outside of the provisions of Article 240.
 
That is a specific term that only applies within Article 240. That is still the case with the 2023 code even though the definition is found in Article 100. "Tap" is also a generic term and can be used outside of the provisions of Article 240.
Yes I was aware that the word "tap" as defined was specific to article 240. If for 2023 they moved it to article 100, why is it still specific to article 240 then, I don't follow?”
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
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In the 2023 NEC, all definitions got centralized to Article 100. Definitions whose scope is limited to a certain article are followed by that article number in parentheses. So the Tap Conductor definition will show (240) after it.

Cheers, Wayne
 

don_resqcapt19

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Staff member
Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
Yes I was aware that the word "tap" as defined was specific to article 240. If for 2023 they moved it to article 100, why is it still specific to article 240 then, I don't follow?”

Article 100 Definitions

Scope. This article contains only those definitions essential to the application of this Code. It is not intended to include commonly defined general terms or commonly defined technical terms from related codes and standards. An article number in parentheses following the definition indicates that the definition only applies to that article.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
I just got off the phone with an apps engineer at Ilsco; they are the mfgr of the IPC connectors we have been using. I wish I had something positive to report, but he has been aware of and trying to get compliant with 230.46 ever since he saw an advance copy of the 2020 NEC. He is extremely frustrated with UL's so far inability to come up with testing standards to get his company's products listed and marked.

He reinforced what I have been reading here, that no one has connectors that comply because of UL's inability to get off the dime. His opinion is that availability of compliant equipment is at least several months out - maybe a year or more.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I just got off the phone with an apps engineer at Ilsco; they are the mfgr of the IPC connectors we have been using. I wish I had something positive to report, but he has been aware of and trying to get compliant with 230.46 ever since he saw an advance copy of the 2020 NEC. He is extremely frustrated with UL's so far inability to come up with testing standards to get his company's products listed and marked.

He reinforced what I have been reading here, that no one has connectors that comply because of UL's inability to get off the dime. His opinion is that availability of compliant equipment is at least several months out - maybe a year or more.
For now everyone needs to get their inspection authorities to invoke the last part of 90.4.
90.4 Enforcement.
...
This Code may require new products, constructions, or materials that may not yet be available at the time the Code is adopted. In such event, the authority having jurisdiction may permit the use of the products, constructions, or materials that comply with the most recent previous edition of this Code adopted by the jurisdiction.
However the key is "may permit" so they are not required to permit the use of products that complied with the older codes.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
For now everyone needs to get their inspection authorities to invoke the last part of 90.4.
Yeah, well, good luck with that. Several AHJs have notified us that they will be enforcing 230.46, effective immediately.
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
Yeah, well, good luck with that. Several AHJs have notified us that they will be enforcing 230.46, effective immediately.
From that and other stories of yours, sounds like a lot of AHJs in your area are quite unreasonable. Sorry you have to deal with that; I hope it's not representatives of AHJs nationwide.

Cheers, Wayne
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
From that and other stories of yours, sounds like a lot of AHJs in your area are quite unreasonable. Sorry you have to deal with that; I hope it's not representatives of AHJs nationwide.

Cheers, Wayne
It's not just in our area; we are in Texas but we do a lot of business in Colorado and Florida. AHJs in both those states are telling us the same thing. Comply with 230.46 or do not do supply side interconnections.
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
It's not just in our area; we are in Texas but we do a lot of business in Colorado and Florida. AHJs in both those states are telling us the same thing. Comply with 230.46 or do not do supply side interconnections.
In the situations where you would normally use IPCs, presumably sometimes (depending on layout and POCO requirements) you could instead set a bussed service gutter and make the splices there. If I understand correctly, power distribution blocks have been subject to the 230.46 requirements for a while, and so there are listed products available to use on the supply side of the service?

Cheers, Wayne
 
In the situations where you would normally use IPCs, presumably sometimes (depending on layout and POCO requirements) you could instead set a bussed service gutter and make the splices there. If I understand correctly, power distribution blocks have been subject to the 230.46 requirements for a while, and so there are listed products available to use on the supply side of the service?

Cheers, Wayne
Yes I does seem like there are other ways. Granted there is the vagueness we have been discussing about what exactly constitutes a splice or tap and if pressure connectors supplied with equipment count.... But other options include

1. Reorganizing the service to look like or be a 230.40 exception #2 install, with the PV connected to the load side of a new panel using the sum of all breakers rule.

2. Maybe add a customer owned CT cabinet and mounting base and say it's needed for customer metering (if asked).

3. Come off the power company CT cabinet/handhole/transformer with your new set if there are lugs available there and they don't have an issue with "PV taps" there (if so, try calling it a regular 230.40 ex #2 install per idea #1).

4. Could always just swap out a panelboard for something big enough to handle a load side connection.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Yes I does seem like there are other ways. Granted there is the vagueness we have been discussing about what exactly constitutes a splice or tap and if pressure connectors supplied with equipment count.... But other options include

1. Reorganizing the service to look like or be a 230.40 exception #2 install, with the PV connected to the load side of a new panel using the sum of all breakers rule.

2. Maybe add a customer owned CT cabinet and mounting base and say it's needed for customer metering (if asked).

3. Come off the power company CT cabinet/handhole/transformer with your new set if there are lugs available there and they don't have an issue with "PV taps" there (if so, try calling it a regular 230.40 ex #2 install per idea #1).

4. Could always just swap out a panelboard for something big enough to handle a load side connection.
Yes, there are ways to get around 230.46, but they are all expensive and/or painful to implement.
 
Yes, there are ways to get around 230.46, but they are all expensive and/or painful to implement.
Sometimes/maybe/depends. An experience electrician may have no problem doing something that a more PV oriented electrician would shy away from. I almost always change/move meter sockets and/or add a service j-box for my ground mounts, even where I could do a basic 40A breaker back feed Get my hotstick , pull the cutouts, change it, done. No biggie, its what I do. Now Im not saying changing a 2000A switchboard out is easy and cheap ;)
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I almost always change/move meter sockets and/or add a service j-box for my ground mounts, even where I could do a basic 40A breaker back feed Get my hotstick , pull the cutouts, change it, done.
Are you saying that you de-energize POCO transformers? 😯
 
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