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IPC 240.36

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jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
BTW I think the issue is with pressure connectors and devices. Power distribution blocks do have a standard for this so it should be possible to find such components with the markings AHJs want. I think?
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
I don't see what the big difference would be between residential and commercial.
Commercial electrical systems often have parallel sets of service conductors where IPCs are not an option for interconnecting PV systems on the line side. If Polaris blocks are no longer allowed, however, then that will be a problem for many supply side interconnected commercial PV systems as well as for services with multiple service disconnects.

What is meant by the term "pressure connectors"?
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
.... If Polaris blocks are no longer allowed, however, then that will be a problem for many supply side interconnected commercial PV systems as well as for services with multiple service disconnects.
Right, so not much difference from residential, in most cases.

What is meant by the term "pressure connectors"?
To my understanding, basically any free floating electrical connector for splicing two or more power wires, which relies on mechanical pressure to maintain the electrical connection. Which is to say, anything that's been allowed for the last few decades since soldering was prohibited.
 
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What is meant by the term "pressure connectors"?
Right, so not much difference from residential, in most cases.


To my understanding, basically any free floating electrical connector for splicing two or more power wires, which relies on mechanical pressure to maintain the electrical connection. Which is to say, anything that's been allowed for the last few decades since soldering was prohibited.
Is this defined anywhere? Say I buy a bussed gutter to install on the line side of the service disconnect to split the service conductors into two sets or make a line side connection. These usually just have bus bars and no lugs supplied. Do the lugs I bolt on have to meet this requirement?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Is this defined anywhere? Say I buy a bussed gutter to install on the line side of the service disconnect to split the service conductors into two sets or make a line side connection. These usually just have bus bars and no lugs supplied. Do the lugs I bolt on have to meet this requirement?
Yes, lugs are pressure connectors.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Is this defined anywhere? Say I buy a bussed gutter to install on the line side of the service disconnect to split the service conductors into two sets or make a line side connection. These usually just have bus bars and no lugs supplied. Do the lugs I bolt on have to meet this requirement?
Apparently you should be looking for listed 'power distribution blocks' (technical term for bussed gutter?) marked for use on the line side, which apparently may actually exist.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Right, so not much difference from residential, in most cases.
Right, except that for most of the commercial services I encounter, multiple sets of service conductors are used, so IPCs are not an option.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Right, except that for most of the commercial services I encounter, multiple sets of service conductors are used, so IPCs are not an option.
The issue is far from limited to IPCs. I almost never used IPCs in residential anyway, since I don't like them and turning off power is less of an issue.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
The issue is far from limited to IPCs. I almost never used IPCs in residential anyway, since I don't like them and turning off power is less of an issue.
I get that, but the topic of the OP is IPC connectors. We have used IPCs where they are allowed for many years with no issues. In some jurisdictions a residential utility shutdown is a pretty big deal, bureaucratically speaking.
 
Yes, lugs are pressure connectors.
So does a panelboard that comes with main lugs have to have those lugs listed as suitable for use on the line side of the service if used that way? OR a CT cabinet mounting bae? In other words I think with this topic most of us are thinking of making "taps" on existing services, but I guess anything now that has a lug, whether it is factory mounted on equipment needs this classification?
 

RumRunner

Senior Member
Location
SCV Ca, USA
Occupation
Retired EE
They can't come up with a design for the connectors until there is an actual listing standard to design to...
That’s a ridiculous even laughable aphorism.
It defies logic.
You can’t test the legitimacy or efficacy of an idea without having a specimen or sample to check its usefulness.

You don’t put the horse in front of the cart.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
That’s a ridiculous even laughable aphorism.
It defies logic.
You can’t test the legitimacy or efficacy of an idea without having a specimen or sample to check its usefulness.

You don’t put the horse in front of the cart.
Sometimes the code has to drive the product standards...putting a code rule in to require something that is not covered by an existing product standard requires the standard writing organization to write a new standard. The only issue is that writing a standard and getting product into the supply chain often takes at least two code cycles.

This it what happened here...the code panel sees a need for something that does not currently exist and something that is not covered by an existing standard. They wrote a rule to require that something and at some point the standards writing organization will publish a standard and the manufacturers will build a product in compliance with that standard.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
...

This it what happened here...the code panel sees a need for something that does not currently exist ...
I think most of us are skeptical the code panel actually saw a need, as opposed to speculated without evidence that there might be a need. The public inputs and comments suggest as much.
 

RumRunner

Senior Member
Location
SCV Ca, USA
Occupation
Retired EE
Sometimes the code has to drive the product standards...putting a code rule in to require something that is not covered by an existing product standard requires the standard writing organization to write a new standard. The only issue is that writing a standard and getting product into the supply chain often takes at least two code cycles.

This it what happened here...the code panel sees a need for something that does not currently exist and something that is not covered by an existing standard. They wrote a rule to require that something and at some point the standards writing organization will publish a standard and the manufacturers will build a product in compliance with that standard.
Standards, Conformity Assessment and Trade provides comprehensive analysis .
Users are not supposed to wait two code cycles (your analysis) for something to be considered a standard.

When science discovers a revolutionary idea that will change the way we do things—scientists don’t just shove that idea down our throat and say:

Here use this gizmo and it will make lives of electricians’ lives a lot easier.

Before they decide to roll-out a new product for the general public—rigorous tests and re-tests would have to be conducted.
Failure to do so, and they would run the risk of unfavorable outcome.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
You can check at nfpa.org/70 with a free account.

But yes, the language is still in the 2023 NEC in 230.46.

Cheers, Wayne
Wonderful. A brother designer with another company called me a little ago after he talked with an inspector. The inspector said to him, "I guess you guys won't be doing any more line side PV connections in my territory for a while."
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
90.4 last paragraph seems like a no brainier to me in this situation, and I certainly would regard any AHJ that doesn't allow past practice to continue in the meantime to be taking a hostile position.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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