Is a AHJ decision Code

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Natfuelbilll

Senior Member
Tony, the local AHJ, says a heat rate of rise detector must be installed. The facility is a single building machine shop.

What is the correct term, or phrase, to use to describe his decision?

Is it now the Code? Or is the decision just a AHJ requirement.
 
iwire

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Natfuelbilll said:
Tony, the local AHJ, says a heat rate of rise detector must be installed. The facility is a single building machine shop.

What is the correct term, or phrase, to use to describe his decision?

Is it now the Code? Or is the decision just a AHJ requirement.
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I would say it is nothing more than a wish if the AHJ cannot cite a written requirement.
 
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Natfuelbilll

Senior Member
No problem with his requirement, kind of minor in scope.

More interested how to charecterize the situation.

Interpretation
Ruling
Local code


Now if it was going to cost me $$$ then I'd fight harder.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Staff member
Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
It is very very unlikely that "Tony" is the AHJ. This would be a ruling or an interpretation of the code rules.
 
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wawireguy

Senior Member
Is this a building code he is citing or some other code? AJH(in a real state like WA) has to cite a code violation. Perhaps the inspector was being nice and didn't want to write you up but was just wanting you to meet a local code?
 
Rick Christopherson

Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
Natfuelbilll said:
Tony, the local AHJ,....
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Tony is NOT the AHJ. Tony works for the AHJ. The AHJ is the city, county, state governing body overseeing the applicable portion of business. All to often people believe (including some inspectors themselves) that inspectors are the AHJ. Rarely would you ever find a local municipality relinquishing that power to one person. That would be tantamount to giving a police officer the authority to create and abolish laws on the spot as he saw fit.
 
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
As far as I know a "rate of rise" heat detector is usually tied into a fire alarm system. If he is the local fire inspector who is citing you be aware that there are many areas in the NFPA codes that cover fire alarm and detection systems and placement of devices that are gray areas and subject to the opinion of the AHJ. If you're working off a print that was designed by an engineer then you can dump it back in his lap. If he is the electrical inspector inspecting your electrical work that has nothing to do with the fire alarm system then he has no business citing you.
 
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One-eyed Jack

Senior Member
Location
Scotland Neck, NC
Rick Christopherson said:
Tony is NOT the AHJ. Tony works for the AHJ. The AHJ is the city, county, state governing body overseeing the applicable portion of business. All to often people believe (including some inspectors themselves) that inspectors are the AHJ. Rarely would you ever find a local municipality relinquishing that power to one person. That would be tantamount to giving a police officer the authority to create and abolish laws on the spot as he saw fit.
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I disagree. The inspector is the one with the certification,not his employer. The AHJ is the person who has the final say weather they be an inspector or some other official in position to adjudicate. They are not creating or abolishing anything. They are rendering an opinion based on established rules. Their opinion usually counts the most. Just like your ec license. Without one you are not allowed to offer to do electrical contracting. No license,not an ec; No certification, not AHJ.
 
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macmikeman

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Location
Planet macmikeman
Rick Christopherson said:
Tony is NOT the AHJ. Tony works for the AHJ. The AHJ is the city, county, state governing body overseeing the applicable portion of business. All to often people believe (including some inspectors themselves) that inspectors are the AHJ. Rarely would you ever find a local municipality relinquishing that power to one person. That would be tantamount to giving a police officer the authority to create and abolish laws on the spot as he saw fit.
Click to expand...

One-eyed Jack said:
I disagree. The inspector is the one with the certification,not his employer. The AHJ is the person who has the final say weather they be an inspector or some other official in position to adjudicate. They are not creating or abolishing anything. They are rendering an opinion based on established rules. Their opinion usually counts the most. Just like your ec license. Without one you are not allowed to offer to do electrical contracting. No license,not an ec; No certification, not AHJ.
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Based on the sketchy way the NEC covers just who is the actual AHJ I would have to say that both of these opposing statements are conjuncture on the part of the posters. The wording in the NEC is very ambiguous as to who "can" be the AHJ, it leads to believe more than one party in each situation may be the AHJ, depending on whom you are speaking to. Maybe the insurance adjuster is the AHJ and you are both wrong.
 
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One-eyed Jack

Senior Member
Location
Scotland Neck, NC
macmikeman said:
Based on the sketchy way the NEC covers just who is the actual AHJ I would have to say that both of these opposing statements are conjuncture on the part of the posters. The wording in the NEC is very ambiguous as to who "can" be the AHJ, it leads to believe more than one party in each situation may be the AHJ, depending on whom you are speaking to. Maybe the insurance adjuster is the AHJ and you are both wrong.
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The insurance co. is the overall AHJ. They made all the rules that everyone has to abide by.
 
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One-eyed Jack

Senior Member
Location
Scotland Neck, NC
Natfuelbilll said:
Tony, the local AHJ, says a heat rate of rise detector must be installed. The facility is a single building machine shop.

What is the correct term, or phrase, to use to describe his decision?

Is it now the Code? Or is the decision just a AHJ requirement.
Click to expand...

No it is not Code. It is an opinion rendered by the AHJ as to acceptability of a particular installation. You would have to petition your states DOI to render a formal interpretation. Then it would be as close to CODE as you can get until it is amended.:D
 
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One-eyed Jack

Senior Member
Location
Scotland Neck, NC
iwire said:
Cannot agree there, here a state agency is the AHJ, they adopt and amend the NEC for our use here in MA.
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Since it is called NEC I am sure all states do something similar. What I am saying is the insurance companies are the moving force behind all technical codes. This is a minimum standard from a safety standpoint and to create a standard for insurability.
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
One-eyed Jack said:
Since it is called NEC I am sure all states do something similar. What I am saying is the insurance companies are the moving force behind all technical codes. This is a minimum standard from a safety standpoint and to create a standard for insurability.
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Take a look at pages 9-20 of your 2008 and you will see who is the 'moving force' behind the Code.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
One-eyed Jack said:
Since it is called NEC I am sure all states do something similar. What I am saying is the insurance companies are the moving force behind all technical codes. This is a minimum standard from a safety standpoint and to create a standard for insurability.
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I will certainly agree the insurance industry is a driving force, heck they started the NEC. :)
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
One-eyed Jack said:
Since it is called NEC I am sure all states do something similar. What I am saying is the insurance companies are the moving force behind all technical codes. This is a minimum standard from a safety standpoint and to create a standard for insurability.
Click to expand...


NATIONAL Electric Code is just a name. There is no national electrical code in the USA. Yes, the NEC is the most popular, but the NEC is a Standard that is published by the NFPA. It is Standard # 70.

NYS does not adopt the NEC. There are State electrical codes, with reference to the NEC. Check out the administrative portion of some of states, and you will see the same reference.
 
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