Is a cabin a dwelling?

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mpoulton

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Phoenix, AZ, USA
I am contemplating what approach to use as I go in for permitting on a remote cabin. It will be off-grid with only minimal solar power, and thus cannot meet all the NEC requirements for a dwelling unit related to service size, dedicated circuits and receptacle spacing. Since the cabin will have no dedicated rooms for sleeping and no permanent cooking equipment, does it have to be considered a dwelling? If not, then do I lose the ability to run concealed nm cable since that's only ok in dwelling units (right?)? How are rustic cabins like this usually permitted? I only do large commercial jobs in the city! Any advice from the backwoods-experienced would be appreciated.
 
Your cabin does not meet the definition of a dwelling unit.

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation.
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NM cable is allowed in other than dwelling units. I would be almost certain that NM is allowed in the cabin.
 
mpoulton said:
I am contemplating what approach to use as I go in for permitting on a remote cabin. It will be off-grid with only minimal solar power, and thus cannot meet all the NEC requirements for a dwelling unit related to service size, dedicated circuits and receptacle spacing. Since the cabin will have no dedicated rooms for sleeping and no permanent cooking equipment, does it have to be considered a dwelling? If not, then do I lose the ability to run concealed nm cable since that's only ok in dwelling units (right?)? How are rustic cabins like this usually permitted? I only do large commercial jobs in the city! Any advice from the backwoods-experienced would be appreciated.
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Here in my neck of the backwoods a cabin is definitely considered a dwelling.(I mean technically, whether seasonal or not you can live in them) In fact, there are several multi-million dollar "rustic" cabins on our lake here. Hope this helps.:wink:
 
sguinn said:
Here in my neck of the backwoods a cabin is definitely considered a dwelling.(I mean technically, whether seasonal or not you can live in them) In fact, there are several multi-million dollar "rustic" cabins on our lake here. Hope this helps.:wink:
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If your neck of the woods uses the NEC then I can't see how they can call the cabin without cooking facilities a dwelling. You sleep in hotel, etc and they are not considered dwellings unless they have provision for cooking.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If your neck of the woods uses the NEC then I can't see how they can call the cabin without cooking facilities a dwelling. You sleep in hotel, etc and they are not considered dwellings unless they have provision for cooking.
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Ohhhhhh, he meant one of those types of cabins, sorry, I guess I'm jaded because everything around here is a "cabin" just not in the Grizzly Adams sense.(Hey wait, maybe I'm not as backwoods as I think):D
 
Dennis Alwon said:
NM cable is allowed in other than dwelling units. I would be almost certain that NM is allowed in the cabin.
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Correct, but if this is not a dwelling unit the NM cable must be concealed within a wall, floor or ceiling that provides a thermal barrier of material that provides a 15-minute finish rating. You couldn't run any exposed NM cable in the cabin.

Chris
 
I agree. There are a lot of cabins that are dwellings. But the OP's example does not meet the NEC definition of a dwelling IMSO.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If your neck of the woods uses the NEC then I can't see how they can call the cabin without cooking facilities a dwelling. You sleep in hotel, etc and they are not considered dwellings unless they have provision for cooking.
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You don't get an electrical permit to start a project like this. You get a building permit to build a cabin. It depends on how the area that you are working in is zoned. They may not let you build just any sort of building, a structure without cooking and sleeping arangments. If you build anything it may have to have all the bells & whistles of a normal dwelling.

On the other hand some areas may not require any sort of permit at all and just consider this a shed or hunting shack.

It really depends on where the cabin is located and what you are allowed to build on the property.

My advice would be to call it a storage building. There are very few rules for a storage building.
 
Sounds like a storage building to me too. It would need permanent provisions for cooking and sanitation (bathroom) to qualify as a dwelling. I guess people occasionally sleep in "storage buildings". Heck, I occasionally sleep in the "dog house" and it doesn't meet the NEC definition of a dwelling either! Fido doesn't seem to mind...
 
I also say non-dwelling but that means exposed NM as Chris pointed out.


Correct, but if this is not a dwelling unit the NM cable must be concealed within a wall, floor or ceiling that provides a thermal barrier of material that provides a 15-minute finish rating. You couldn't run any exposed NM cable in the cabin.
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Article 720 Equipment Operating at Less Than 50 V may apply. This article has been in the NEC since the 30's and was orginally for farm DC plants.
Google farm DC plants and you'll find information on john deere DC generators etc.
 
I seen Abe Lincolns cabin in Hodgenville KY and if it was a dwelling for him then why not yours.Perhaps he was Amish cause there was no electric.But it is air conditioned now
 
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Jim W in Tampa said:
I seen Abe Lincolns cabin in Hodgenville KY and if it was a dwelling for him then why not yours.Perhaps he was Amish cause there was no electric.But it is air conditioned now
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The fact that you sleep in the cabin every day has no meaning to the nec. There must be other factors. Again, a hotel room may be slept in every day but it still is not necessarily a dwelling. I don't make the rules I just laugh at them. :grin:
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The fact that you sleep in the cabin every day has no meaning to the nec. There must be other factors. Again, a hotel room may be slept in every day but it still is not necessarily a dwelling. I don't make the rules I just laugh at them. :grin:
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Many office cubicle's are slept in everyday and are not dwelling unit's either.
If it is that small of a "cabin" why not run MC ? then if critters get in there they won't be chewing on the NM.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The fact that you sleep in the cabin every day has no meaning to the nec. There must be other factors. Again, a hotel room may be slept in every day but it still is not necessarily a dwelling. I don't make the rules I just laugh at them. :grin:
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Hotels, Motels, Motor Lodges, or other forms of "Transient Lodging" fall under commercial building code requirements, not residential! Actually, I believe anything over for families kicks it into commercial.

Definitely call the AHJ/Plans Examiner to find out if you need a building / electrical permit(s) and / or what sections of code are relevant! ;) :grin: :cool:
 
DanZ said:
Hotels, Motels, Motor Lodges, or other forms of "Transient Lodging" fall under commercial building code requirements, not residential! Actually, I believe anything over for families kicks it into commercial.

Definitely call the AHJ/Plans Examiner to find out if you need a building / electrical permit(s) and / or what sections of code are relevant! ;) :grin: :cool:
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Whether or not a building is deemed "commercial" or "residential" by the building code really has no bearing on the definition of a dwelling unit in the NEC.

Chris
 
DanZ said:
Hotels, Motels, Motor Lodges, or other forms of "Transient Lodging" fall under commercial building code requirements, not residential! Actually, I believe anything over for families kicks it into commercial.
;) :grin: :cool:
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I assume you mean four families but that is irrelevant because a 6 family building could still be a dwelling and also fed with NM cable. Read art. 334.10 for uses of NM cable. The 4 story requirement was changed a while ago-- not sure when.
 
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