Is a sleeve a raceway?

[goldstar]

UF, not normally, THWN, nearly all the time especially 14 - 12 AWG in black white green, and usually a few other colors.

You obviously have a bigger truck than I do. Unless I'm doing a job that requires THWN I leave the wire rack in my shed.

 

[jumper]

You see the code says raceway not enclosures. I agree it is a bit of a mess but surely you see the difference. In an enclosure the conductors are not likely to be sitting in water as they would be in a raceway.

I had thought about writing an exception for vertical pipe runs since they would not be holding water

Also enclosures has this:

312.2 Damp and Wet Locations.
In damp or wet locations, surface-type enclosures within the scope of this
article shall be placed or equipped so as to prevent moisture
or water from entering and accumulating within the cabinet
or cutout box, and shall be mounted so there is at least
6-mm (1⁄4-in.) airspace between the enclosure and the wall
or other supporting surface. Enclosures installed in wet lo-
cations shall be weatherproof. For enclosures in wet loca-
tions, raceways or cables entering above the level of unin-
sulated live parts shall use fittings listed for wet locations.

 

[goldstar]

You see the code says raceway not enclosures. I agree it is a bit of a mess but surely you see the difference. In an enclosure the conductors are not likely to be sitting in water as they would be in a raceway.

I had thought about writing an exception for vertical pipe runs since they would not be holding water

I do see the difference but, in all fairness, as you stated a vertical wire run is not going to be sitting in water (per say) either. You also have to consider whether the amount of moisture that might form inside the sleeve is enough to penetrate the sheathe of the NM cable.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I do see the difference but, in all fairness, as you stated a vertical wire run is not going to be sitting in water (per say) either. You also have to consider whether the amount of moisture that might form inside the sleeve is enough to penetrate the sheathe of the NM cable.

But the nec makes no distinction between vertical run and horizontal etc.... Personally I think they should label the wire in NM and allow these installs.

Here in NC I would bet there are tens of thousands of homes that have exterior panels with a 2" pvc conduit out the bottom and a 2"pvc LB into the crawl. Guess what is inside those sleeves? I have ripped many out and have seen no signs of damage even to the jacket.

 

[goldstar]

But the nec makes no distinction between vertical run and :weeping:horizontal etc.... Personally I think they should label the wire in NM and allow these installs

I think that comes down to a matter of more $$$ to manufacture the wire and thus the dilemma.

 

[tkb]

I'm trying to understand this a little better. If I want to get a circuit from a basement to an attic and I ran PVC up the side of a house, used LB's to stub into each area that would be considered a sleeve. And if I terminated each end into a JB that would be considered a raceway ? Can I use mm cable in the sleeve and not the raceway ?

The PVC between the LB's are a raceway and from the LB's into the house are sleeves.

 

[romex jockey]

has the NEC ever tried to define 'sleeve'.....?

~RJ~

 

[goldstar]

The PVC between the LB's are a raceway and from the LB's into the house are sleeves.

Would it make any difference if I bent 90's instead of using LB's ?

 

[GoldDigger]

Would it make any difference if I bent 90's instead of using LB's ?

In that case since there were no devices, enclosures, or fittings on either end the whole thing is just a sheath, IMO.

 

[kwired]

You obviously have a bigger truck than I do. Unless I'm doing a job that requires THWN I leave the wire rack in my shed.

Standard box 3/4 ton pickup truck. But I do not carry NM or even MC cable unless I know I am going to need it. With the majority of what i do I am more likely to need short (which can be anywhere from 6 inches to 50 feet) lengths "on demand" of THHN/THWN and usually keep certain amount of it on the truck at all times.

I do see the difference but, in all fairness, as you stated a vertical wire run is not going to be sitting in water (per say) either. You also have to consider whether the amount of moisture that might form inside the sleeve is enough to penetrate the sheathe of the NM cable.

But the condensation at very least will pool up at the bottom if not arranged to drain, just like a raceway.

Personally I think they should label the wire in NM and allow these installs.

They still would need to eliminate the use of absorbent filler materials before it will become wet location wiring method I would think.