Is an apartment main breaker needed?

[tonype]

Apartment building with a 200-amp main breaker. From here, 8 apartments are serviced (I know, skimpy, but hey, this is Hudson County, NJ), with separate meters. After the meters, one apartment panel contains 7 branch circuits. It lacks a main disconnect. Is it ok for the building main to act as the main for this panel? I always thought that the apartment panel would also require its own main disconnect.



Regards,
Tony Shupenko

 

[mdshunk]

I'd be more concerned that the tap rules may be getting violated. I sorta doubt that each apartment's panel is fed with 200 amp conductors or cable.

 

[tonype]

I'd be more concerned that the tap rules may be getting violated. I sorta doubt that each apartment's panel is fed with 200 amp conductors or cable.

Mark:

From the 200-amp main breaker, the service wire enters a cable tray - the wires are spliced and then routed to the 8 meters. I did not open the cable tray (beyond what I do for an inspection). The apartment service wires were #6 copper.

Tony

 

[hillbilly]

That set-up sounds totally wrong to me.
How far is it from the meter to the inside panel(s)?
What kind of cable from the meter(s) to the inside panel(s)?
steve

 

[tonype]

That set-up sounds totally wrong to me.
How far is it from the meter to the inside panel(s)?
What kind of cable from the meter(s) to the inside panel(s)?
steve

Steve:

From the outside (front wall) - 200-amp main breaker is on the side wall, just inside of the front wall. From where, a conduit travels about 4 feet where it enters the cable tray (I hope I am using the correct words) - the tray is about 6 feet long. The individual apartment meters are then serviced off the cable tray (there is no main meter for the entire building). The apartment panels are then connected to the meters.

Tony

 

[mdshunk]

The apartment panels are then connected to the meters.

I guess it's the length of #6 conductors from the tap in the gutter to the lugs in the apartment panels that we're concerned about, and the seeming lack of overcurrent protection for those conductors.

 

[hillbilly]

words) -
"The apartment panels are then connected to the meters."

How far is it from the meter to the apartment panel?
What kind of wire (cable?) is feeding the apartment panel (from the meter to the panel)?

 

[tonype]

The panel is less than 2 " away -connected by a small bushing (?). #6 copper wires from the meters to the apt. panels. Gutter (thanks for the correct word) connects to the meters in a similar manner.

By the way, the entire system stinks - some apartments are only serviced by 2 branch circuits - typical old community construction. My concern with this one particular panel was that it was replaced about 12 years ago (even though I am recommending replacemnt of the entire system).

Tony

 

[growler]

By the way, the entire system stinks - some apartments are only serviced by 2 branch circuits - typical old community construction. My concern with this one particular panel was that it was replaced about 12 years ago (even though I am recommending replacemnt of the entire system).

Tony

Some of the old wiring has been Grand Father in since Edison was around.

Once things are Grand Fathered you have to stop looking in the Code book and start looking for safety or fire hazards. If you can find such violations then the owner can be forced to up-grade.

Edit: As a home inspector you can make the potential buyer aware of any conditions that you find that may be of consern. I pointed out to a home inspector that a certain installation was legal when installed 10 years ago but he still made it an issue for the seller.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The apartment panels are lighting and appliance branch circuit panels and as such must be protectect at or below their rating. Unless the panels are rated at 200 amps, overcurrent protection is required within the panel or on the line side of the panel. 408.36(A).
Don

 

[celtic]

I know, skimpy, but hey, this is Hudson County, NJ

I make a lot of money in Hudson County - so much was/is done poorly by people who have no business being anywhere near electricity.

Some of the old wiring has been Grand Father in since Edison was around.

Growler makes a valid point...
[Rules That Make Sense?New Jersey?s Rehabilitation Subcode] ...even with that broad code at your disposal - I don't believe the installation was EVER "code".

The apartment panels are lighting and appliance branch circuit panels and as such must be protectect at or below their rating.

Don makes a good point also.

The panels in the individual units should be protected (at a minimum) by OCPD's in the main panel. The main panel should also have a MCB on it.


Did you take any pictures?

 

[George Stolz]

After the meters, one apartment panel contains 7 branch circuits. It lacks a main disconnect.

Tony, do the other 7 panels have a main breaker?

Looking at 240.21(B)(1), it looks as though the #6's may be compliant, but it would take some looking on your end.

Don has the most likely violation.

What is the overall condition of the conductors and the breakers themselves?