Is EMT a conduit?

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K8MHZ said:
I agree, but by the same token, so is FMC and PVC.

I don't understand why FMC is 'conduit' while EMT isn't, but that's the way the book is written and even goes so far to segregate them by groups. Look in the index, cables are grouped together, tubing is grouped together and conduit is grouped together.

Although rather inexplicable as to the rationale, some raceways, whether flexible or not, are conduit and some are tubing.
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I am with you also. Conduit is too generic of a term to mean any one specific item. So is tubing. If a person wants to specify a particular "raceway" then in my opinion they need to mention that raceway by its name and not just call it conduit or tubing.

RMC could also be called tubing. Merriam-Webster dictionary defines tubing as "material in the form of a tube", and couple other definitions that are not as applicable to this discussion. Sure sounds like RMC meets that definition.
 
cdslotz said:
Under your spec section for Raceways, was EMT listed as an approved raceway?
If so, was it specific in where you can and cannot use it?
Just because you submitted EMT doesn't mean he allowed you to use it
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In spec section there was no mention of any approved or not approved wiring methods or materials but prints showed some arrea as RMC and other as conduit
 
kwired said:
I am with you also. Conduit is too generic of a term to mean any one specific item. So is tubing. If a person wants to specify a particular "raceway" then in my opinion they need to mention that raceway by its name and not just call it conduit or tubing.

RMC could also be called tubing. Merriam-Webster dictionary defines tubing as "material in the form of a tube", and couple other definitions that are not as applicable to this discussion. Sure sounds like RMC meets that definition.
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Wiki describes EMT as conduit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conduit
 
Let's also look at it this way- if the engineer wanted RMC (or IMC) and nothing else, it's pretty good odds that he'd specify that exactly. Since most of the trade thinks of EMT to be a type of conduit* ("We have to run conduit some today." "What kind?" "EMT"), I'm guessing that he wanted some sort of non-flexible enclosure for the wires, but that's just a guess.

*whether or not that's technically accurate

As the OP said:
We submitted on EMT and RMC, used RMC where it specifically called out for it. but where plans stated conduit not RMC we used EMT. Inspector has signed off that installations meet NEC requirements. Engineer is looking for a credit for area where we used EMT.
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If the engineer called RMC for some places and not for others, I don't think he can demand a credit for using another type of pipe elsewhere.
 
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Put it on the plan, Stan!

Put it on the plan, Stan!

If I want the installer to use EMT, I put "EMT" on my plan. Same for RMC or whatever else. Otherwise I get what he gives me, as long as it's an approved wiring method.
 
Its a mute point he doesnt have a problem with the emt if all he wants is money back. if he did not want emt he would ask for replacement, so i would chalenge him on it.
 
Most time when I have run into "conduit" being the specification with no other details of what type it means no cable wiring methods are allowed. It would be simpler if the designer would simply specify "raceway" methods instead of using a more generic term, but they generally have the higher education degree so what do I know:(.
 
I think it's silly there's even a reason to debate whether emt is a conduit or not. It's tubing, but used as conduit. It carries wires through it, if that doesn't meet the definition of conduit I don't know what would.

It should be called EMC. There should be bigger things to debate than tubing vs. conduit.
 
With all due respect to everyone here...

"Conduit" is not defined in the Code book. So end of story it does not have a legal definition. If I want to call MC conduit I can. All that matters after that fact is what the Engineer's instructions and regretfully to some extent intent is! I can send you 50 sets of plans right now where an Engineer refers to EMT as conduit. To belabor the point, since the code doesn't define it, it doesn't have a legal meaning. If the Engineer says minimum conduit size is 3/4" are you going to be stupid enough to PO him and write and RFI asking if you can install 1/2" EMT? Or more importantly, do any of you (iwire) think that a Court of Law will accept this argument when the Owner requires you to change it?

Similarly, if the Engineer tells you all fixtures will be mounted to strut, are you going to go to the auto store to buy shocks and struts, because it is actually steel rolled channel that may be refered to by its trade names of Strut or Kindorf? Obviously not!


EMT is a conduit for wires. The plastic sheathing for romex is a conduit for wires. Is EMT Conduit with a capital C? Who cares! What matters to the OP, and would matter to me for that matter is, Do I need to spend more money or not! To answer that give us access to the contract documents. Maybe we can help formulate and argument, or tell the OP he messed up and misinterpreted the Electrical Engineer.

Is it really any more complicated than that?
 
Cow said:
I think it's silly there's even a reason to debate whether emt is a conduit or not. It's tubing, but used as conduit. It carries wires through it, if that doesn't meet the definition of conduit I don't know what would.

It should be called EMC. There should be bigger things to debate than tubing vs. conduit.
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Well said and shorter than my attempt to say the same thing.
 
iwire said:
It's UL listed as tubing is it not?
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You are technically correct, it is "listed" as a tubing.

But out in the real world (and i am sure you will agree) that we all call them conduits/raceways unless they are specified a particular kind. And in the OP case since it wasn't specified he assumed it is EMT, because EMT is usually used in commercial installations.

Now, if OP bid his job for IMC, then I agree the OP must refund the difference. Otherwise, the engineer is OK with the EMT but looks like wants to make a fuss about it an get something for free.
 
How do you bend EMT?

I've looks all through my Greenlee catalog, and I can't find any tubing benders.

If the job "needs" real pipe, then the EMT needs to be replaced, and the OP gets to eat it. If it didn't specify IMC/RMC/NMC, then the engineer can go pound sand.

Indeed, I'd offer to replace the EMT with PVC for free, if the engineer was insisting only on 'conduit.' What? He means 'steel conduit?' Is that in the specs?

XOXOXOXOXOX

Let's put it in perspective .... I'm working right now in an industrial setting where we want REAL pipe. I don't think there's two sticks of EMT in a square mile of buildngs. You bet they're extremely clear whenever there's a new contractor, with company personnel inspecting during the job, that we do NOT want EMT.

Even then, there's plenty of room for confusion. Company personnel constantly refer to 'rigid,' without knowing that there even is such a thing as IMC. Such personnel are also blissfully unaware that the company specs allow IMC. As far as these folks are concerned, there's "rigid" and there's "EMT." The irony is that this company makes pipe - including electrical conduit (at another plant), yet they have not a clue.

If the folks who make the stuff are confused in their choice of words, it's unreasonable for the engineer to expect Oxford precision after the fact. After all, I don't see the engineer paying for the change orders that correct the goofs he made.
 
WirenutNH said:
In spec section there was no mention of any approved or not approved wiring methods or materials but prints showed some arrea as RMC and other as conduit
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Then he has a piss-poor set of documents.
If what you say is true, because we can't read your documents, I would challenge him.
Show him this thread.

I hope you have collected most of your money
 
iwire said:
I agree it is a raceway but that is not what the OP asked.
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I agree as well and just to throw fuel on the fire, look at the actual wording of all the 3XX.24 article sections for conduit and tubing, note that the NEC took pains to change the wording for the different raceway types.

Roger
 
renosteinke said:
How do you bend EMT?

I've looks all through my Greenlee catalog, and I can't find any tubing benders.
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So instead of looking at the UL listing, or looking at the NEC you want to hang your hat on what the salespeople at a manufacturer call it.

I find that funny considering how little faith you have given to manufacturers in the past.
 
roger said:
I agree as well and just to throw fuel on the fire, look at the actual wording of all the 3XX.24 article sections for conduit and tubing, note that the NEC took pains to change the wording for the different raceway types.

Roger
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To make it easy for folks


342.24 Bends ? How Made. Bends of IMC shall be so
made that the conduit will not be damaged and the internal
diameter of the conduit will not be effectively reduced. The
radius of the curve of any field bend to the centerline of the
conduit shall not be less than indicated in Table 2, Chapter 9.
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344.24 Bends ? How Made. Bends of RMC shall be so
made that the conduit will not be damaged and so that the
internal diameter of the conduit will not be effectively reduced.
The radius of the curve of any field bend to the
centerline of the conduit shall not be less than indicated in
Table 2, Chapter 9.
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358.24 Bends ? How Made. Bends shall be made so that
the tubing is not damaged and the internal diameter of the
tubing is not effectively reduced. The radius of the curve of
any field bend to the centerline of the tubing shall not be
less than shown in Table 2, Chapter 9 for one-shot and full
shoe benders.
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roger said:
I agree as well and just to throw fuel on the fire, look at the actual wording of all the 3XX.24 article sections for conduit and tubing, note that the NEC took pains to change the wording for the different raceway types.

Roger
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So what? It doesn't define "conduit" but the dictionary does, and EMT is conduit per the dictionary definition. Also, the term conduit is used for EMT by Engineer's often. This situation is one where you would need to take all of the info and see what sticks.
 
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