Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

[jamieone]

Can Emt be considered to be supported by passing through a CMU wall? The holes and web area in the cmu are filled with concrete or mortar around the EMT where it passes through. The EMT then enters boxes or surface mounted lighting fixtures on each side of the wall within 3' of where it exits the wall.
The actual case is where the conduit enters a fluorscent surface mounted strip fixture on each side of the wall, within 18" of the wall. The EMT enters into a knockout in each fixture. The wall the fixtures are mounted on is perpendicular to the wall the conduit passes through. This allows the EMT to pass straight through the wall and into the fixture.

 

[websparky]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

If the AHJ thinks that it is "securely fastened", you are good to go! If he is not of that opinion, eh.......!

 

[ccha9219]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Emt running thru anything is suppported by a vertical memeber but needs to be straped there after within 3' of a coupling and 18" of a box

 

[roger]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Craig,

needs to be straped there after within 3' of a coupling

where is this writen?

Roger

[ March 25, 2004, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

While your searching for Roger, see if you can find a reference for this.

Originally posted by ccha9219:
Emt running thru anything is suppported by a vertical memeber but needs to be straped[...] and 18" of a box

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Jamieone: I consider "support" to be anything that counteracts gravity. If it doesn't fall down, in my opinion, it is strapped.

I taught a class today on resdiential violations, and a (very sharp) gentleman told me that NM cables should be stapled on the top of trusses so that it is secured. We discussed the differences between securing and supporting at great length, and I think most people in the class agreed with me that as long as it doesn't fall, it is supported.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Ryan Your not suggesting not to strap NM running across attics?

In case you are: With out staples to secure the NM in the attic when someone comes along and steps between the trusses on the unsecured NM and pull's it through the staples down in a wall instead of up in the attic where it can be repaired much easer. You or even us when we are called on to repair the short caused by the staple skinning the insulation off the NM will wish it was stapled up in the attic where it is much easer to put a J-box to repair it otherwise there will be drywall to patch.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Originally posted by hurk27:
Ryan Your not suggesting not to strap NM running across attics?

In case you are: With out staples to secure the NM in the attic when someone comes along and steps between the trusses on the unsecured NM and pull's it through the staples down in a wall instead of up in the attic where it can be repaired much easer. You or even us when we are called on to repair the short caused by the staple skinning the insulation off the NM will wish it was stapled up in the attic where it is much easer to put a J-box to repair it otherwise there will be drywall to patch.

Wayne: I can appreciate your take on this, but I see no requirement in the code that addresses this.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Ryan,
In my opinion, 334.30 requires NM to be secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings unless run through holes or notches in hortizonal framing members.
Don

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Don: Thanks for pointing that out. I think you are right. I find it interesting that type MC cable only asks for support at it maximum intervrals, but indeed, NM asks for securing. Thanks again.

 

[tom baker]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

"needs to be straped there after within 3' of a
coupling"
A coupling is not a fitting. It does not require a strap within 3 feet.

 

[websparky]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Hi Tom,

I'm not so sure a coupling isn't a fitting.

Fitting. An accessory such as a locknut, bushing, or other part of a wiring system that is intended primarily to perform a mechanical rather than an electrical function.

I agree that I usually never refer to them as a fitting as I would a box connector.

I also believe the code's description of termination points refers to the end of the EMT section (or piece of conduit)not exclusively where the EMT connects to a box.

Please consider this exception;

Exception No. 1: Fastening of unbroken lengths shall be permitted to be increased to a distance of 1.5 m (5 ft) where structural members do not readily permit fastening within 900 mm (3 ft).

The maximum distance here is 5'.

In the drawing below, does this satisfy code?

 

[roger]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Heres a graphic from Mike. Note that the reference is the 99 NEC, but 358.30 contains the same wording

Roger

 

[websparky]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Hi Roger,

I agree with your example.
The example I posted is slightly different.
It shows a 9' length of EMT between couplings and this length (section) is not supported.
Is this acceptable?

 

[roger]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Hello Dave, hope you guys are getting spring like weather now, I would say yes that it is acceptable.

Of course I'd like to put one in there some where if I could.

Roger

[ March 26, 2004, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[websparky]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Hi Roger,

The weather here is 58* and very nice! T-Storms are on the way though.....

Do you recall the 96 NEC? I think that was the version that said "each piece" or "each section" or something like that......??

The drawing I made is for this type of discussion where good workmanship plays a big part in overall quality. It is amazing to me when I have to explain the mechanical concepts to apprentices when they are left alone to install conduit!

 

[roger]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Dave, glad your weather is nice, we're thinking about hitting the lake this weekend.

I will have to check the 96 code, but it seems I do remember some wording similar to your last post.

Roger

 

[websparky]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Fishin'... nice idea!

Boating?? The water down there is still a little chilly, isn't it?

 

[roger]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Dave, yes we are thinking of putting the boat in the water.

The water is chilly, but we are supposed to be about 70 - 75 f air temp this weekend.

Wouldn't want to ski, but just riding or fishing will be nice.

Roger

 

[websparky]

Re: Is EMT passing through CMU wall considered to be support

Roger,

You are a lucky dog!

We are in for a warm Sunday but the water up north is still a little cold when out on the big lake.

The inland lakes that are shallow are warming up nicely from the sun!

Ahh.........spring time!