Is getting shocked worse on load side?

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ritelec

ritelec

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Jersey
Hello.

I have people telling me that if you get rapped on the line side of a load or the load side of the load, it will be the same.

Personally, maybe it's my imagination (and hearing in the part that "you took the load"), but it hurts more getting rapped on the return.


Thoughts?
 
Additionally, I know 5 amps in 5 amps out, but why then if you disconnect and connect the load at the neutral you get more of a spark than disconnecting at the feed?

Thank you.
 
ritelec said:
Additionally, I know 5 amps in 5 amps out, but why then if you disconnect and connect the load at the neutral you get more of a spark than disconnecting at the feed?

Thank you.
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I don't think that's correct. And yes, I've done both.
 
ritelec said:
I would be load on line side too.
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Yes, in both cases you are the load, and in both cases the supply voltage drives the current through the load. There will be no difference in the shock.
I have often been told the shock from an open neutral hurts more, but I think that is only because many think that you should not be able to get shocked from the white wire. It is the same as getting shocked from the hot...the voltage drives the current though the load...you.
 
ritelec said:
Personally, maybe it's my imagination (and hearing in the part that "you took the load"), but it hurts more getting rapped on the return.


Thoughts?
Click to expand...


The amount of current that goes through the body depends on how well grounded you are.

Normally you are not that well grounded unless you are in contact with the earth or metal that is grounded ( building steel). You get zapped while working on 120V and standing on a wood floor it doesn't seem all that much. Resistance to ground.

When working on the neutral if you get zapped you are often sorted straight to ground (return). For some reason people are not as carefull with the white wire as they should be. The word neutral gives a false sense of being safe.

Learn how current flows and make sure that you never become a good path to ground.
 
I think being a good path from line to line would be worse....
Let's just say you do not want to be a good current path from source to return. Or just that you do not want to connect two points of different potential.

Tapatalk!
 
When you switch a grounded conductor, the only thing grounded when the switch is open is the return side to the source, the other side is at same potential as the ungrounded conductor supplying voltage to it, there is no voltage drop across the load when you have an open circuit, the full voltage is dropped across the open point of the circuit. Same current flows when you close that switch no matter where that switch is located in the circuit. Same voltage appears across that switch when open, no matter where you locate it in the circuit.
 
My first thought is that when you bridge a open neutral you are in series with a possibly inductive load. But then I thought about the relative impedances and decided that would have little or no practical effect.
But just for grins consider being the path from the plus of a nine volt battery to ground versus being the return circuit (or supply circuit for that matter) in series with that same nine volt battery and a spark coil. :)

Tapatalk!
 
growler said:
Learn how current flows and make sure that you never become a good path to ground.
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GoldDigger said:
I think being a good path from line to line would be worse....
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Right you are, phase to phase is much worse but most people are smart enough to figure that one out and you don't here of that many people getting shocked shocked phase to phase ( or maybe they don't live to tell about it ).

I have known of a lot of dumb asses getting nailed by an open neutral.
 
GoldDigger said:
My first thought is that when you bridge a open neutral you are in series with a possibly inductive load. But then I thought about the relative impedances and decided that would have little or no practical effect.
But just for grins consider being the path from the plus of a nine volt battery to ground versus being the return circuit (or supply circuit for that matter) in series with that same nine volt battery and a spark coil. :)

Tapatalk!
Click to expand...

The high voltage that makes the spark comes when the magnetic field of the coil collapses, if you are part of the circuit your impedance limits how much field will build up and will lessen the "spark voltage". Now if you are touching both sides of the switch when it opens that would subject you to the "usual" field when it collapses, less the very high resistance you introduce into the open portion of the circuit.
 
If you're in series with the load then the current flow is restricted by the resistance of your body added to the resistance of the load. If you're on the line side there is no load resistance so your body current flow would be greater.
 
growler said:
I have known of a lot of dumb asses getting nailed by an open neutral.
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Hey... that's me.

Knock on wood, been a while (couple or more decades). But once a dumb ass always a dumb ass?

Briefly, I get alittle buzz here and there very rarely. I've learned to turn things off. (Not jinxing myself am I).

Starting out ( thirty yrs ago). Got 480v thru my hand. Not a big deal (could have been).
In high bay ceiling, 277, told circuits where off. On lift, cut wires, felt like someone kicked me between the shoulder blades with I combat boot (I've never been kicked between the shoulderblades with a combat boot but I imagine that's what it would feel like. I was stuck. A ball of red or fire or something doing a circle around the inside of my arms as I was holding and stuck to this pipe. Somehow, luckily, my pliers hit the pipe
and tripped the circuit. Talk about being the load. Was told it was like the reverse of being resuscitated with the paddles and I could die later. I didn't die.
Caught line side of 277v feeding fluorescent lights. Hurt. Caught Load side of fluorescent lights. REALLY HURTS.


So years later, I am not around those voltages much. But I know the 120 can kill you too so as mentioned, when I can, I turn it off.

Thank you.
 
infinity said:
If you're in series with the load then the current flow is restricted by the resistance of your body added to the resistance of the load. If you're on the line side there is no load resistance so your body current flow would be greater.
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The resistance of the human body is so much higher than that of the load, there will be very little, if any, difference in the current flow through your body. You will still have the full line to neutral voltage to drive the current.
 
ritelec said:
Hey... that's me.

Knock on wood, been a while (couple or more decades). But once a dumb ass always a dumb ass?

Briefly, I get alittle buzz here and there very rarely. I've learned to turn things off. (Not jinxing myself am I).

Starting out ( thirty yrs ago). Got 480v thru my hand. Not a big deal (could have been).
In high bay ceiling, 277, told circuits where off. On lift, cut wires, felt like someone kicked me between the shoulder blades with I combat boot (I've never been kicked between the shoulderblades with a combat boot but I imagine that's what it would feel like. I was stuck. A ball of red or fire or something doing a circle around the inside of my arms as I was holding and stuck to this pipe. Somehow, luckily, my pliers hit the pipe
and tripped the circuit. Talk about being the load. Was told it was like the reverse of being resuscitated with the paddles and I could die later. I didn't die.
Caught line side of 277v feeding fluorescent lights. Hurt. Caught Load side of fluorescent lights. REALLY HURTS.


So years later, I am not around those voltages much. But I know the 120 can kill you too so as mentioned, when I can, I turn it off.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

There can still be differences in your instances of line side vs load side that will impact how much and where current flows through your body, you just happened to be in the right situation at the time of the load side incident that more likely had more current flowing or at least more current in more critical/sensitive areas of your body. Jump in a swimming pool with a stray voltage issue and you will likely don't even need 120 volts for it to hurt more then you experienced in either of those incidents.

If you ever get hit like you described again you would be wise to go to the emergency room, you can die later from internal injuries, they can monitor some basic things pretty easily and determine if there has been internal injuries, and by the time you start to feel not right some irreversible/hard to recover from damage may be done already. You can have internal organ/tissue damages that cause other problems later, some blood tests, oxygen levels, and other fairly routine procedures will catch many of these problems before they get to advanced.
 
ritelec said:
WOW... all these years.... that explains it !!! :)




ONLY kidding.
Very serious subject and I don't mean to make light of it.
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I've heard kidney shutdown is a common problem after electric shock, that is serious and will kill you. Is easy for medical staff to detect though, simple blood tests will tell them something is not right.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The resistance of the human body is so much higher than that of the load, there will be very little, if any, difference in the current flow through your body. You will still have the full line to neutral voltage to drive the current.
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The load and the body are in series so the resistance is additive making the current flow less than just the load itself.
 
infinity said:
The load and the body are in series so the resistance is additive making the current flow less than just the load itself.
Click to expand...

The difference in current would be negligible.

If a person has a 1000 ohm resistance, line to neutral on a 120 volt circuit, they would draw .1200 amps. A load that draws 5 amps would be 24 ohms. In series, that gives us 1024 ohms or .1172 amps.
 
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