Is it a counter or not?

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Vinny B

Vinny B

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Location
MA
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Electrician
I just failed an Inspection. The Local Inspector failed me because I didn't put GFCI receptacles above a counter in the Basement.

The basement is a finished space. The counter won't have a sink in it. The home owner is using it for entertaining like a bar area.

When I questioned the inspector he referenced article 210-52 A3

Is this correct? Do I need ground faults.
 
Re: Is it a counter or not?

Originally posted by vinny?:
I just failed an Inspection. The Local Inspector failed me because I didn't put GFCI receptacles above a counter in the Basement.

The basement is a finished space. The counter won't have a sink in it. The home owner is using it for entertaining like a bar area.

When I questioned the inspector he referenced article 210-52 A3

Is this correct? Do I need ground faults.
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210.52(A)(3) Floor Receptacles. Receptacle outlets in floors shall not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle outlets unless located within 450 mm (18 in.) of the wall.

Is he wanting you to install a floor receptacle in place of a wall space receptacle?
 
Re: Is it a counter or not?

A vague answer for a vague question. I hope I can help though.

Is this a bar that extends beyond the wall into the room? A framed kneewall that the bar is attached to counts as wallspace. If not, then wallspacing applies along the wall. GFCI would not apply in your case.
 
Re: Is it a counter or not?

The counter is against the wall and doen't extend out. I provided receptacles above the counter but they are not Ground fault.

The Inspector indicated thaqt the counter could be used for appliances.

He also stated that GFCI was required above all counters even if a sink was not present?

He couldn't state the article but told me it was in the code for a long time??

The article he left for me on my voicemail was 210-52 A1 and A3.

This has nothing to do with GFI protection??

Thank you for your replys
 
Re: Is it a counter or not?

Originally posted by vinny?:
The counter is against the wall and doen't extend out. I provided receptacles above the counter but they are not Ground fault.

The Inspector indicated thaqt the counter could be used for appliances.

He also stated that GFCI was required above all counters even if a sink was not present?

He couldn't state the article but told me it was in the code for a long time??

The article he left for me on my voicemail was 210-52 A1 and A3.

This has nothing to do with GFI protection??

Thank you for your replys
Click to expand...
1) Could Be is not a code violation, violations are suppose to be presented upon fact, not assumptions.

2) I don't have my 2005 handy, but I do have my 1999 & 2002NEC currently.
210.8(A)7 Wetbar sinks - where the receptacles are installed to serve countertop surfaces and are located within 6ft of the outside edge of the wet bar sink.

3) 210.52(A)(1) is wallspacing of 12ft between receptacles along the floor line.(6ft from a horizontal point.)

4) 210.52(1)(3) Floor receptacles.

5) Without the sink, this has absolutley nothing to do with GFCI protection.

From the '99 to the '02 there are minor deletions of a few words, but nothing pertaining to your case. I don't recall any changes to the '05 that would require it either, but like I said, my '05 is not readily available.

Good Luck.
 
Re: Is it a counter or not?

Originally posted by vinny?:
The Inspector indicated thaqt the counter could be used for appliances.

It could be used for alot of other things, too.

He also stated that GFCI was required above all counters even if a sink was not present?

Is this a kitchen??
If not, then he is wrong.

He couldn't state the article but told me it was in the code for a long time??

The article he left for me on my voicemail was 210-52 A1 and A3.

He needs to read 210.8
Why not invite him to this forum.
Maybe we could all learn something.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Is it a counter or not?

He did say that the receptacles where in a basement so 210.52 5 G is there.But it does say a receptacle will conform to 210.8 A 2 and A 5.I guess that means that only one has to be gfci`d.That in itself is silly only one and not all ?????
 
Re: Is it a counter or not?

I just checked the 2005 NEC and the only counter tops that require reseps are for the kit, dining room, breakfas room and pantries 210.52 (b)1. If you do install them over the countertop and there is a sink present then 210.8 (A) (7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks ? where the receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink. Notice the word countet top is no longer here. Receps within a six foot radiu of the sink even the ones down at the floor need to be protected. You did say that this was a basement if it is finished you can treat the finished area like any other protion of the house. Each unfinished are must have at least one GFCI recep installed. Hope this helps
 
Re: Is it a counter or not?

Originally posted by vinny?: The Local Inspector failed me because I didn't put GFCI receptacles above a counter in the Basement.. . . When I questioned the inspector he referenced article 210-52 A3
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There are two separate questions here. Question 1 is "Do you need a receptacle in that location at all?" Question 2 is "Does that receptacle require GFCI protection?"

If the Inspector is dealing with Question 2, then he has no business talking about 210.52. That article is all about where receptacles are needed (i.e., it is about Question 1). The issue of whether you need GFCI is in 210.8.

If there is no sink in the area, then receptacles that serve countertops in the basement do not require GFCI. The Inspector is wrong.
 
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