Is It Required...

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infinity said:
It's a toilet in a 4X6 room, there is no sink so no GFCI protection is required.
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I haven't been paying close attention, but my impression is that there is a sink just outside the 4x6 toilet room. Since the Article 100 definition of bathroom refers to "an area including . . .," it seems to me there is a reasonable argument that the 4x6 toilet room, plus the room outside with the sink, compromise a single area which is a bathroom.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
I haven't been paying close attention, but my impression is that there is a sink just outside the 4x6 toilet room. Since the Article 100 definition of bathroom refers to "an area including . . .," it seems to me there is a reasonable argument that the 4x6 toilet room, plus the room outside with the sink, compromise a single area which is a bathroom.

Cheers, Wayne
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Glad you are not an AHJ because that kind of variable interpretation makes it difficult as an EC to know what is expected and could be costly once the walls are closed in.
 
wwhitney said:
I haven't been paying close attention, but my impression is that there is a sink just outside the 4x6 toilet room. Since the Article 100 definition of bathroom refers to "an area including . . .," it seems to me there is a reasonable argument that the 4x6 toilet room, plus the room outside with the sink, compromise a single area which is a bathroom.

Cheers, Wayne
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There is no reasonable argument since the sink is in a separate room from the toilet.

iwire said:
Glad you are not an AHJ because that kind of variable interpretation makes it difficult as an EC to know what is expected and could be costly once the walls are closed in.
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I couldn't say this as nicely as you. :)
 
iwire said:
Glad you are not an AHJ because that kind of variable interpretation makes it difficult as an EC to know what is expected and could be costly once the walls are closed in.
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So a residential bathroom with a door between the sinks and the toilet/shower area isn't an NEC bathroom?

Cheers, Wayne
 
nysprkdude said:
Is this Daycare in a one or two family home?
Are there receptacles required?
Commercial building = none required.
Water closet = bathroom with receptacle = GFCI right?
Despite all of the above, within 6 ft. of a sink = GFCI
In an area frequently occupied by children with water, this is a no-brainer. GFCI
Am I missing something here?
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Home Daycare -- No
Commercial -- Yes
Water Closet -- Toilet ONLY

There is a door separating these rooms from the classrooms that use them.



Thanks to all who have given their thoughts.
 
iwire said:
This goes back to knowing what inspectors expect.

In a home yeah likely expected, in other than a home no.
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OK, so you agree the NEC definition supports either interpretation of the word "area," and it comes down to AHJ discretion?

Cheers, Wayne
 
1793 said:
I have looked at 2014 210.8 (B) and I conclude No.
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So the sink in the classroom is definitely more than 6' from the toilet room receptacle in question? The 2017 NEC added language to 210.8 to indicate the 6' measurement would stop at the toilet room doorway, which suggests that under earlier NECs some AHJs may have ignored the doorway while measuring.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
So the sink in the classroom is definitely more than 6' from the toilet room receptacle in question? The 2017 NEC added language to 210.8 to indicate the 6' measurement would stop at the toilet room doorway, which suggests that under earlier NECs some AHJs may have ignored the doorway while measuring.

Cheers, Wayne
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Yes, much more that 6' from the edge of the sink.
 
Just a toilet does not meet the definition of a bathroom. We knew what a bathroom was until we had to install GFCIs back in the early 1970s.
 
iwire said:
Set up:

Daycare/Pre-School Bathroom double Pedestal Sink & toilet
Water Fountain
His & Her Water Closets, toilet w/exhaust fan, ceiling light & duplex receptacle in each.

Currently all of the above are controlled by the GFI in the Bathroom

Question:

Is GFI protection required for the Water Closets?

I have looked at 2014 210.8 (B) and I conclude No.
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What is a water closet?

It sure sounds like a bathroom

From article 100
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A water closet is referred to a room containing a flush toilet.
 
lucky96 said:
A water closet is referred to a room containing a flush toilet.
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That's a pretty archaic term for it, though. I have only heard it used in reference to Jack Paar's run-in with NBC over the term in 1960, and he only used the initials "W. C."
 
lucky96 said:
A water closet is referred to a room containing a flush toilet.
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Meh, maybe not. I've seen it used in context to refer to the toilet itself. A floor plan with multiple instances of "W.C." shown in what is a bathroom. On line definitions offer both interpretations.
 
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