Is panel replacement in order, I think so?

[J2H]

I was recently asked to troubleshoot a tripping basement breaker. The cause was damaged insulation in a pull chain luminaire box. Not quite sure what happened, if the feed thru neutral was loose and overheat and melted the insulation on the hot, or the wires were not dressed properly and this was a latent failure.

Client reported house was built 30 years ago, and no work was recently performed.

To be thorough, I decided to inspect the home run and found significant corrosion in the panel.

Based on what I see, I think it wise to recommend a panel replacement, but curious on others opinions.

Interestingly, I see things in the photos, that are more obvious now than then when I was there.

 

[jim dungar]

Too much visible corrosion, can't imagine what the inside of the breaker looks like.
IMO, Replace it all.

 

[ModbusMan]

Get it gone. Even the 45 year old FedPac panel my parents (finally!!) replaced last year, hung in an barely protected and sometimes musty corner of the basement, didn't have corrosion issues like that.

 

[AC\DC]

??????????? That’s corrosion- how much humidity you have in Wisconsin??
That’s nothing,are look like that after 5 years with are salt air. I say you’re fine it’s probably superficial. Take some apart and see what it looks like. You can always just change the bar!
If you can talk them into a change go head but I hate waisting people money

 

[roger]

You ought to see some that have been under salt water after numerous hurricanes.

 

[jim dungar]

??????????? That’s corrosion- how much humidity you have in Wisconsin??
That’s nothing,are look like that after 5 years with are salt air. I say you’re fine it’s probably superficial. Take some adapter and see what it looks like. You can always just change the bar!
If you can talk them into a change go head but I hate waiting people money

We have very little humidity except from dampness caused by ground water around unoccupied cellars. Loadcenters at my old lake home rarely lasted 20 years.

 

[AC\DC]

You ought to see some that have been under salt water after numerous hurricanes.

Now that you mention underwater- are those mandatory to change if underwater or can you test them?

 

[roger]

Depends on what the owner wants but normally insurance companies want them changed.

 

[AC\DC]

Depends on what the owner wants but normally insurance companies want them changed.

Okay we don’t flood a lot around here I know there some standered for testing wire I think it address panels also

 

[jim dungar]

Okay we don’t flood a lot around here I know there some standered for testing wire I think it address panels also

There is no way to clean dirty water contamination from inside of a breaker, so those need to be replaced if submerged. Panel bussing can be cleaned, but it might not be worth it. Steel enclosures can be treated like any other steel object.

 

[J2H]

Thanks for all thoughts and opinions. I agree about wasting people’s money which is why I asked the forum.

At the same time, I don’t want to be irresponsible, and overlook something that should really be replaced.

Initially I didn’t think it was that bad, but it looks like the insulation on the wire on the third breaker down has been overheated.

And it looks like something may be going on with the feed to the range.

 

[norcal]

The rust on the lugs screws is pretty typical for Siemens, but the SQ D Homeline breaker has no business in any competitive panel.

 

[J2H]

??????????? That’s corrosion- how much humidity you have in Wisconsin??
That’s nothing,are look like that after 5 years with are salt air. I say you’re fine it’s probably superficial. Take some apart and see what it looks like. You can always just change the bar!
If you can talk them into a change go head but I hate waisting people money

That’s kind of what I was initially thinking, that if screws are properly torqued that in theory it should be oxidation tight and not impact the connection.

That said, I’m suspicious of the connection at the third breaker down.

 

[AC\DC]

Your call.

 

[NoahsArc]

Initially I didn’t think it was that bad, but it looks like the insulation on the wire on the third breaker down has been overheated.

I can't tell anything from the photo, or I'm somehow blind, not sure which.

 

[J2H]

I can't tell anything from the photo, or I'm somehow blind, not sure which.

Looks like I didn’t upload one of the photos I meant to, oops. Actually fourth if you start at the one that is just out of the frame.

 

[J2H]

Thank you for the thoughts and opinions. Seems like this is somewhat subjective. It’s stuff like the Range feed in the photo below that makes me concerned. Seems like there is the possibility of overheated terminations. That said, this doesn’t look like the neatest install, so it’s possible that some of these problems stem from poor installation practices.

Just want to make sure that I suitably advise the client, and that a conservative approach doesn’t result in a major problem.

 

[AC\DC]

What is in those pic your concerned the sediment on the breakers?

 

[J2H]

What is in those pic your concerned the sediment on the breakers?

I'm most concerned about the corrosion on the neutral and ground bar, and on the breaker termination screws. I wish I had taken better photos, but on the third breaker down in the photo I uploaded on Sunday, it look like the insulation may have melted, as it does on the aluminum SE cable for range on the fifth breaker down in the last photo.

But that photo is not so sharp, so I am not so sure now, and perhaps it is the way the photo was taken.

 

[brycenesbitt]

To be thorough, I decided to inspect the home run and found significant corrosion in the panel.

I'm not so interested in the corrosion at that level,
but why it corroded to that level. Cleaning up some terminals can do wonders.

But why ? Humidity, leaks, insects, rodents, plumbing, toxic drywall sulfur, gases from the ground?

No 30-year-old panel should look like that.