Is there a better way?

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I kknew iit wwasent just me..

I kknew iit wwasent just me..

This is one of the hardest puzzels I've ever worked on.
Is there a way to turn on the motion detection section, automaticlly, when the Time Clock Turns "off".?
I am will to use 2 circuits if it helps.
 
brockbone said:
This is one of the hardest puzzels I've ever worked on.
Is there a way to turn on the motion detection section, automaticlly, when the Time Clock Turns "off".?
I am will to use 2 circuits if it helps.
Click to expand...
You could use the model with a SPDT output. N.O. of TC energizes CR. N.C. via photocell energizes MS's. You'd have to revise my diagram a little.
 
the new guy

the new guy

I haven't been able to figure out how to upload my diagrams, but by the time I get it figured out, scaaned, formatted and all you alrady have a cleaner one. Thank You. How much am I going to owe ya?:roll:
 
No photo cell switch

No photo cell switch

Due to the mounting and panel locations (basement East side) a photo cell is going to be a real pain to install. Large custom home on cliff, which is why I opted for the Intermatic ASTRO time Clock.
 
brockbone said:
MS & CR
Are these ocntained in the same device?
Click to expand...
No. CR = 6-pole control relay or its equivalent (such as 3, 2-pole relays). Generally mounted in an enclosure next to the time clock, with conduit adjoining them.

brockbone said:
Due to the mounting and panel locations (basement East side) a photo cell is going to be a real pain to install. Large custom home on cliff, which is why I opted for the Intermatic ASTRO time Clock.
Click to expand...
I imagine your motion sensors are remote to the time clock. Just install the PC in the same location as the closest MS.

PS: I didn't see one, but if you had a time clock with two independently-controlled outputs you could eliminate the PC.
 
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getting confused

getting confused

The motion sensors are in a visable location but need to be as unobtrusive as possible, i would rather not draw attention to them.

In the ZONE LIGHTING.pdf I don't quite understand the Control Relay section. I can read blueprints ok but some times get lost in schematics.
 
brockbone said:
...

In the ZONE LIGHTING.pdf I don't quite understand the Control Relay section. I can read blueprints ok but some times get lost in schematics.
Click to expand...
The "parts" of a relay, or other device, are drawn and placed individually (often) on schematics.

The circle with CR inside it is the coil. The ones with TC, PC, and MS represent the powered control part of those respective devices. The normally open (N.O.) contacts have a designation beside them denoting what device the are part of, such as the one with TC beside it. There are no normally closed contacts in my diagram, but the would be just like a N.O. contact except they'd have a diagonal line though them.
 
Well i think Intermatic makes a programable model astro time clock today with two contacts each can be programed for different times use one contact for set time sun rise on set set off .
Use the other for 10 pm off wire them in series this would mean no photo cell ?

ONE TIME CLOCK TWO FUNCTIONS
 
material list

material list

So I have (1) Time Clock {with 'Astro' Fuction to eliminate the photo Cell}
(1) control relay which only fuctions when either the wall Switch or the TC are closed which then heats up the load side of the MS and the Line side of the Transformers, T1-T-6.
Is that right so far?
 
brockbone said:
The set-up is this:
In my Bosses front yard he wants......
6 "zones" of low voltage lighting, with 1 transformer controlling 1 zone for a total of 6 L.V. Transformers.
All lights come on at Sundown.
All lights go off at 10:00 PM.
At 10:00 PM all lights become 'intrusion' detectors. One motion detector for each zone of the 6 zones.
All capable of being over-ridden by a single switch located inside the front door.
Turn the switch on and all lights come on.

I tend to go with the 'old-school' 120V motion detectors for cost and simplicity of operation.
But I am not opposed to useing a lighting control panel IF it will get the job done AND be reliable.


REPLY:Depends on the design - 6 zones - each with it's own MS, and one time clock with over-ride? The back fed timeclock will work - but not a fantastic design in Line Voltage - makes more sense with Wattstopper low voltage motion sensors. This keeps all the line voltage in one place for TS purposes, and you can get them in a DIN rail mounted version.
Or use the W/S LP8
If anyone has a better idea please let me know. Scratching my head...Brock
Click to expand...
I think using 120v detectors requires running a lot of 120V power around to control transformers that will be probably located in one central place(possibibly a voltage drop issue), and over complicates the use of this scheme.... Not sure what your fears are with LV controls - but to each his own....

Also - getting this much 'control' out of items designed to act alone seems like re-inventing the wheel.... A Wattstopper LP-8 is designed to do the whole thing in one simple programable package. Astro clock, individual MS zones, and over-ride...

Seems the cost of time and material would head me to a control panel... CP, and outlets for T's all in one place - then cheap LV/irrigation/thermostat wire everywhere else....
 
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ohmhead said:
Well i think Intermatic makes a programable model astro time clock today with two contacts each can be programed for different times use one contact for set time sun rise on set set off .
Use the other for 10 pm off wire them in series this would mean no photo cell ?

ONE TIME CLOCK TWO FUNCTIONS
Click to expand...

Yes they do. One time clock 2 contacts.
 
e57 said:
I think using 120v detectors requires running a lot of 120V power around to control transformers that will be probably located in one central place(possibibly a voltage drop issue), and over complicates the use of this scheme.... Not sure what your fears are with LV controls - but to each his own....

Also - getting this much 'control' out of items designed to act alone seems like re-inventing the wheel.... A Wattstopper LP-8 is designed to do the whole thing in one simple programable package. Astro clock, individual MS zones, and over-ride...

Seems the cost of time and material would head me to a control panel... CP, and outlets for T's all in one place - then cheap LV/irrigation/thermostat wire everywhere else....
Click to expand...

You are right. My concern is cost. The LV Motion Sensors, and The LP-8 are very costly for Landscape lighting.
 
brockbone said:
You are right. My concern is cost. The LV Motion Sensors, and The LP-8 are very costly for Landscape lighting.
Click to expand...
Open up an excel sheet and weight the options... ;) Check your pricing (DO NOT GUESS!) and calc time for installation for each component.... Including time cobbling together a bunch of stuff while you scratch your head on how to make them work in front of the boss.... ;) :roll:

An LP panel depending on who you get it from will run about $1200, plus 6 each motions.... (~$70ea.) Plus a momentary sw for overide ($10) = $1630 + incidentals and labor???? How much will a TC, contactors/relays, enclosures and time to put it all together run you??????
 
e57 said:
Open up an excel sheet and weight the options... ;) Check your pricing (DO NOT GUESS!) and calc time for installation for each component.... Including time cobbling together a bunch of stuff while you scratch your head on how to make them work in front of the boss.... ;) :roll:

An LP panel depending on who you get it from will run about $1200, plus 6 each motions.... (~$70ea.) Plus a momentary sw for overide ($10) = $1630 + incidentals and labor???? How much will a TC, contactors/relays, enclosures and time to put it all together run you??????
Click to expand...
Will do, thanks.
 
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