Is there room enough?

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tonype

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AFCI's fitted into an older Square D cabinet (QOBW-20). Is there a minimum clearance needed between the breaker lugs the sides of the cabinet?
 

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There's a minimum radius required for all bends. Someone smarter than me can tell you what they are.
Then you have distance as a function of voltage. What's your voltage on those conductors?
Have you asked Schneider how this works?
 
mgookin said:
There's a minimum radius required for all bends. Someone smarter than me can tell you what they are.
Then you have distance as a function of voltage. What's your voltage on those conductors?
Have you asked Schneider how this works?
Click to expand...
Actually there is no minimum bending radius in the NEC for any conductor operating at less than 1000 volts.

I don't see a real issue in the picture.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Actually there is no minimum bending radius in the NEC for any conductor operating at less than 1000 volts.

I don't see a real issue in the picture.
Click to expand...

There's a minimum industry chamfer as a function of voltage in PCB design.
As to distance, the insulation probably takes care of that for the insulated part of the conductor but not for the bare unless you want to count paint as an insulator.
Put that lug too close to the sidewall and you have a problem.
OP has a valid concern. Schneider should answer his question.
 
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tonype said:
AFCI's fitted into an older Square D cabinet (QOBW-20). Is there a minimum clearance needed between the breaker lugs the sides of the cabinet?
Click to expand...

If you remove the two pole on the bottom right and try to install AFCI or GFCI QO breakers, it won't happen.:slaphead:
 
mgookin said:
There's a minimum industry chamfer as a function of voltage in PCB design.
Click to expand...
We are working with insulated conductors and not PCB traces. We are working under the rules of the NEC and there is no bending radius for the conductors in that picture.
As to distance, the insulation probably takes care of that for the insulated part of the conductor but not for the bare unless you want to count paint as an insulator. Put that lug too close to the sidewall and you have a problem.
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The distance between the exposed terminal and the grounded conductor enclosure is more than sufficient for the voltages involved. UL 508A says 1" through the air is sufficient for 600 volts systems. It appears that we have more than one inch between the bare terminal and the side of the enclosure.
OP has a valid concern. Schneider should answer his question.
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I agree that they should answer the question, but I don't see any issues. Sure there is a reduction in the available wire "gutter" space, but I am sure that the space in not even close to being filled to the maximum of 40% that is permitted by the code.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I agree that they should answer the question, but I don't see any issues. Sure there is a reduction in the available wire "gutter" space, but I am sure that the space in not even close to being filled to the maximum of 40% that is permitted by the code.
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I agree in a practical sense but listing wise is this breaker shown on the panel labeling as an acceptable breaker? The panel may predate even the concept of AFCIs.
 
iwire said:
The panel may predate even the concept of AFCIs.
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That panel was obsoleted in the 80's.
It is likely that the panel is not even listed for the twin breakers which have been installed.
The part number, from the OP, is for the box only (the B in the part number), the interior bussing would have a part number beginning with QON.

Edit:
It is hard to tell but it looks like the panel includes some 1pole breakers without Visi-trip window (which would make them roughly 50 years old)
I might dig out my old catalogs, but I probably won't.
 
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I understand that this is an older narrowing panel, but even the standard 14.25 wide ones are annoyingly too narrow when it comes to AFCI's. As long as we have to use them, I think the loadcenter manufacturers should redesign the them for AFCI use so they have more gutter space and the screws can be gotten to. I really hate things that are designed poorly and loadcenters with AFCI's are exactly that. I usually use square D, maybe ill check out some other brands as suggested. Peter D what do you like about the siemens?
 
electrofelon said:
I usually use square D, maybe ill check out some other brands as suggested. Peter D what do you like about the siemens?
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I like that the AFCI's are the size of a standard breaker and therefore not eating up the gutter space unlike the Square D, CH-CH and older BR do. I also like that they use solid wire for the pigtail which makes it much easier to keep the panel neater. Finally, I like the indicator lights that tell you what caused the last trip.
 
peter d said:
I like that the AFCI's are the size of a standard breaker and therefore not eating up the gutter space unlike the Square D, CH-CH and older BR do. I also like that they use solid wire for the pigtail which makes it much easier to keep the panel neater. Finally, I like the indicator lights that tell you what caused the last trip.
Click to expand...

Which brand are you referring to ? ITE ?
 
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