Art.408 (E)(1) is clear in how should be the AC Phase Arrangement.This is the Main Distribution Panel with the left side arrangement from top to bottom:brown-orange-yellow conductors and the right side from top to bottom:yellow-orange-brown conductors. Someone have seen this before?
Is this AC Phase arrangement correct?
- Thread starter marcosgue
- Start date
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Is there a photo?
Sorry because the image is too large but I think the description is comprehensive.
Imaging stand up in front of the panel, the conductors from top to bottom are brown,orange,yellow landing in the breakers of the left side and the breakers in the right side of the panel are yellow,orange,brown from top to bottom.
Imaging stand up in front of the panel, the conductors from top to bottom are brown,orange,yellow landing in the breakers of the left side and the breakers in the right side of the panel are yellow,orange,brown from top to bottom.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
The bus bars are expected to comply with the phase arrangements of 408, but the individual branch/feeder lugs do not have to, unless there has been some type of local amendment. The Square D I-Line family of breakers regularly has different phasing on the left versus right side even though the bus bars are correct for 'front to back'. They do have special order breakers for those people that want them the same.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
You're correct that the breakers that are on opposite bus sides are typcially connected to the same bus. I've never see it where they change orientation. Question is does it really matter if the conductor colors on each side don't match?
Thanks for the information, my practice is to follow landing the conductors the same color in the same phase and this's confuse to me
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
As Jim said, that is probably an iLine panel, if you look closely, you will see the breakers will have A B C printed above the lugs.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
What brand and model is the panel?
qcroanoke
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
- Location
- Roanoke, VA.
- Occupation
- Sorta retired........
Agreed
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Yes. All breakers may be 'back fed' unless they are specifically marked with Line or Load designations.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Looking at a photo of the I-line panel Jim is correct because the bus is stacked.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
You should match colors, or any other identification method, to phases.
The problem in this case is assuming the circuit conductor position must also be matched.
I-Line breaker terminals are clearly marked with a letter corresponding to which phase they are connected.
Another place where phase color postions may not be followed is on motor starters, where motor rotation needs to be changed.
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xformer
Senior Member
- Location
- Dallas, Tx
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
In the I-Line panels I have performed work in, the phase colors were properly phased down the left side and reversed down the other side. The reversal was due to the physical arrangement of the contact points on multi-phase breakers. 
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Which is a violation of 210.5(C) if there is more than one voltage system in the building.
This was code change a couple of cycles ago when the changed the scope of Article 210 to included motor branch circuits.
I have tried a couple of times to have an exception for motor circuits, because as the code is currently written, you have to change the motor rotation at the motor junction box and not at the starter. No one is going to do that in the real world and a code rule that will not be complied with in the real world should not be a code rule.
You're saying Brn, Or. Yel on the line side of a disconnect to Yel, Or. Brn at the load side is a code violation?
How can that be when color codes aren't actually addressed by the code other than Grounded and the wild leg etc... ??
I'd have to disagree on the interpretation.
Yes you would need to define the different volatages as in BOY for 480v vs BRB for 208v, but, I dont 210.5c rule is defining a specific color for a specific phase.
JAP>
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- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Don,
Any particular reason why they rejected the exception? IMO this entire code section needs work.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Because 210.5(C) says the conductors have to be identified by phase and voltage where there is more than one voltage system in the building. the code does not assign a specific color for the identification by phase and voltage. The installer does that, but it must be the same through out the building.