Is this legal?

[dbuckley]

Do note that there is a very real difference between a "pirated copy" of something, and theft / shrinkage.

In the former case the producer and retailer have both failed to gain the profit on selling the item. In the latter the retailer has lost not only the profit, but lost the cost of that item, as he no longer has it to sell, and will have to buy a replacement from the producer. The producer, on the other hand, gains from retailer shrinkage, as he gets the profit on the replacement item the retailer buys.

Nothing is ever simple...

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

I'll one-up you on simplicity. Much of what HD and lowe's sells is not the property of the store. Just like grocery store chains, they only lease out the shelf space to the manufacturers or distributors. The store's only concern in regards to theft is that a high theft occurance causes the shelf space to eventually become less valuable, and the vendor may possibly pull the product.

If the vendors retaliate against theft by raising prices, in comes the "store brands" or a competitor's product. High return rates have the same effect. This is why so many products sold today contain a notice that if a part is missing or defective, NOT to return it to the store, but to call a 1-800 number for free replacement.

 

[spsnyder]

I think it's nieve to think prices at any store aren't effected by shoplifters and for that matter pirated material. In a perfect ethical world retailers would not have to spend all that money on camara, security, electronics, etc. One store/company could not throw all that money saved into profits because their competitor wouldn't to bring loyal customers to his store by offering lower prices.

As far as pirated material is concerned, people who buy it legally pay the price. I have a problem with people who steal music and intellectual property and justifying it by saying that it's a victomless crime and only reduces the wealthy artist or company profits. It's stealing and it's immoral. If you know it's pirated and buy it anyway I have issues.

If you're a PE, how would you like to do a design and have someone not pay you and steal your construction documents. I don't see a differentiation.

Regards.

 

[petersonra]

If you're a PE, how would you like to do a design and have someone not pay you and steal your construction documents. I don't see a differentiation.

It is VERY common for designs, or parts of designs, to be lifted and used by someone else. I have had more than one case where programs I wrote were used to make dozens of machines.

IMO, when you do work for hire, the end product belongs to the buyer, and he can do what he wants to with it, and that is pretty much how our company handles that issue.

I am sure other people handle it differently.

 

[charlie b]

IMO, when you do work for hire, the end product belongs to the buyer, and he can do what he wants to with it, and that is pretty much how our company handles that issue. I am sure other people handle it differently.

A former employer of mine, a company that designed ships and boats, did handle it differently. If they designed a vessel, and issued the plans to the owner, and if that owner wanted to use the plans to build a second vessel of the identical design, the engineering company required payment of an additional (nominal) fee. That was written into the initial contract. The reasoning is that the engineer of record has responsibility for the design, along with some liability risk. That liability risk increases, each time another vessel is constructed. So the added fee is there to offset the added costs of liability insurance.

 

[dbuckley]

I think it's nieve to think prices at any store aren't effected by shoplifters and for that matter pirated material.

Theres no link at all.

The store charges as much as it can get away with charging, which is pretty much the model that everyone in here uses too.

Imagine you had the stock in your truck nicked. In order to recoup that loss, you decide you will up your quotes by 20% for the next month. Thats what your statement clearly states.

Now tell me with a straight face, are all your customers going to pay you 20% more for the same job they can get elsewhere for what you used to charge? or indeed just wait a month for your prices to return to 'normal'?

What happens is you cry, and eat the loss. Your margin per job is reduced (and may indeed go negative for a while), but your prices are set by the local competitive market conditions.

 

[haskindm]

To think that prices are not effected by theft is as niave as saying that "I lose money on every job, but I make it up through volume!" Theft costs everyone. There is no such thing as a victimless crime.

 

[dbuckley]

Theft costs everyone.

To respond adequately to that point requires delving into areas with subject matter like "social" and "political", both of which are OT for this forum. You're basic assertion is correct, though it is because we the people choose to make it so.

On the individual level, though, I challenge you with my statement: do you not charge what your market will bear, and if you sustain loss of your truck stock, would you not eat that loss rather than put up your prices to beyond what your market would bear, and thus lose business?

 

[haskindm]

If I am to stay in business, I must be allowed to cover my losses. The margin for most products is too small to allow for 100% losses. There is a limit to how far you can go, but I don't think anyone would say that they have made 100% of the profit available on any job. Not everyone always goes with the low bidder. There are often very good reasons for accepting a higher price.