Is this one different (i.e., a different scam)?

[Greg Swartz]

Count me in.
What ever we end up splitting the cost for.

I think there is a place that has $50 off on this... I was doing some searching around for it too...

 

[LarryFine]

Count me in.
What ever we end up splitting the cost for.

I think there is a place that has $50 off on this... I was doing some searching around for it too...

I saw a site or two that offered money off and free shipping if you entered the code BIGMIKE somewhere.

 

[Greg Swartz]

I saw a site or two that offered money off and free shipping if you entered the code BIGMIKE somewhere.

That sounds like the one I was looking at.

 

[Fulthrotl]

They go to great lengths to assure the potential buyer that buying, selling, and owning their device is perfectly legal. But then they go to even greater lengths to distance themselves from any possible illegal use of their device. They will not, they say, be a party to any illegal use. The customer is solely responsible, should the device be used illegally. But they do appear to assert that the utility company cannot discern its presence.

pssst... don't tell nobody... this here is a secret thingie that will make
whatever you want to happen, happen.

what the device actually does, is activate the inherent greed module
hardwired into every consumer.

and it transfers money from one bank account to another like magic!!

and you plug it in, and little blinky lights blink.... and they cannot be
detected by the public utility, no matter how hard they try....

last time i checked, residential service doesn't look for power factor
issues with a watt meter... the new wireless telemetry meters can
record that data, but residential customers are not subject to a rate
surcharge because of poor power factor... and poor power factor is the
original something for nothing deal... the poco has to provide all this
service ability to start a big motor, and the motor cancels out the inrush
with CEMF.... so aligning the power factor close to 100% is not in the
customers best interest....

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Makes you wonder if they're tested in places like this?

What third world country was this pic taken in? Hope it wasn't here in the good ole USA.

 

[ptonsparky]

No jumper or bond at the local water meter as far as I can tell. Must be someplace nice & warm.

 

[charlie b]

Before this goes too far, my friends, let me point out that this company seems to have made a significant effort to protect themselves against liability claims. I do not want anything done by the members of this forum to place Mike Holt Enterprises at risk. Whatever "truth" might be uncovered by purchasing and experimenting with one of these devices, if we were to "expose" that "truth" to the world, the company could use that as a basis for suing MHE for defamation and a host of other things. Are we really experienced enough in the means and methods of scientific testing to stand up, in court, against the accusation that, "They just played with the device as though it were a toy, and now they are costing us business"?

My suggestion is that, however worthy the notion, we not go there.

 

[LarryFine]

Whatever "truth" might be uncovered by purchasing and experimenting with one of these devices, if we were to "expose" that "truth" to the world, the company could use that as a basis for suing MHE for defamation and a host of other things.

Is not the truth the ultimate defense?

 

[buddhakii]

Makes you wonder if they're tested in places like this?

Where did you find that fine wordmanship?

 

[charlie b]

Is not the truth the ultimate defense?

Not in a court of law, it isn't, especially when the jury will not understand one word of what the litigants are saying against each other.

 

[ohm]

Is not the truth the ultimate defense?

Very true Larry, count me in. Now, can we test this thing on your meter?

 

[growler]

Whatever "truth" might be uncovered by purchasing and experimenting with one of these devices, if we were to "expose" that "truth" to the world, the company could use that as a basis for suing MHE for defamation and a host of other things. Are we really experienced enough in the means and methods of scientific testing to stand up, in court, against the accusation that, "They just played with the device as though it were a toy, and now they are costing us business"?

We don't need to purchase one for testing and we are certainly not quallified. There are those that are qualified to certifiy equipment for use and there was no mention of testing in the add.

Without a UL or some laboratory testing of this equipment and it being listed for use then we wouldn't be allowed to install it anyway and neither would the homewoner.

They don't state anywhere that this equipment is approved for use as sevice equipment ( connected to service ). If it doesn't have a sticker it's up to local authorities and the power company to approve it.

What they do openly state is this: "this information and Meter Beater are only to be used by certified electrical technicians and/or for educational purposes only". This is their statment and not mine.


They actually market the equipment as a teaching tool and only suggest that it could be used for other purposes ( neat trick).

If you think about it the only thing that you could purchase one for legally would be for test purposes only and that's all they really say. The rest is up to you ( the customer).

The minute that you break the meter seal then you are not complying with local and state laws and would probably void any warranty ( illegal use of product).

My main question would be this: If this thing actually works then wouldn't it be easier to install at the panel where the customer is allowed access and not tampering with metering equipment.

 

[charlie b]

My main question would be this: If this thing actually works then wouldn't it be easier to install at the panel where the customer is allowed access and not tampering with metering equipment.

Good point. That reinforces my suspicion that it somehow interferes with the proper operation of the meter, and that it therefore constitutes theft. And no matter what their web site says, if they state that their product can, and has, saved money on electric bills, then they are a party to theft. That, at least, is the opinion I plan on bringing to the Electric League meeting later this month.

 

[charlie b]

. . . so aligning the power factor close to 100% is not in the customers best interest....

That's the odd part, the part that makes me think this is a different kind of scam. They don't ever state that their device improves power factor. They don't say that that is the manner in which the customer saves money.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Please Note... This item is 100% LEGAL to buy, sell and own.

Note that they don't say it is legal to use or install.

 

[ohm]

That's the odd part, the part that makes me think this is a different kind of scam. They don't ever state that their device improves power factor. They don't say that that is the manner in which the customer saves money.

Let's see if POCO's saved money by having more customers w/ unity PF theoretically the rates would go down and customers WOULD save money.
Hold your applause everyone, I'm just one person trying to make a difference.:smile:

 

[drbond24]

That's the odd part, the part that makes me think this is a different kind of scam. They don't ever state that their device improves power factor. They don't say that that is the manner in which the customer saves money.

They might not say WE IMPROVE POWER FACTOR, but they do imply it with the graphic on their home page at the top right. The description underneath says high power factor = low energy waste.

 

[steelersman]

Is not the truth the ultimate defense?

with all due respect Larry, the truth is not the ultimate defense. The PITTSBURGH STEELERS are!!

 

[LarryFine]

Very true Larry, count me in. Now, can we test this thing on your meter?

Well, what I had in mind, as far as documenting its effectiveness, was to use a meter and base I have on hand with a couple of load types, and not to touch my house meter at all.

What I really want to do is disassemble it and see what's inside it. If there's any circuitry to speak of, I will attempt to trace it out and draw a schematic. I want to wee what makes it tick.

I guess it could be something as simple as a pair of power resistors that partially bypass some current past the meter. That would clearly be for theft of power, which I won't do.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Good point. That reinforces my suspicion that it somehow interferes with the proper operation of the meter, and that it therefore constitutes theft. And no matter what their web site says, if they state that their product can, and has, saved money on electric bills, then they are a party to theft. That, at least, is the opinion I plan on bringing to the Electric League meeting later this month.

this is presuming the thing actually *does* something besides move money
from your checking account to theirs. i suspect that is the limit of it's
functionality.

fraud is most certainly being committed here, but not against a poco.

it's a perfect setup. they lead you to draw conclusions about their product,
which in no way fuctions, and if you complain, then it means you failed to
steal electricity, which in california is a felony.

it's like calling the police to complain that the saturday night special you
bought to stick up a liquor store misfired, and you were defrauded.

O! The Horror!


randy