Is this wall space

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Jerseydaze

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Am I correct that a railing at the top of a loft counts as wall space and I need floor recepts in a residence
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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steelersman said:
the rail doesn't need one but the floor along the rail does assuming it's a long enough rail.
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No, I believe you absolutely must cut the rail out and install a pop in box in the rail. Art.1435.19 (A). :smile:
 
celtic

celtic

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steelersman said:
That seems like a lot of unnecessary work to do all that. :)
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I agree...why can't we use a mineralac/cowboy and a bellbox and skip the sawing?
 
charlie b

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;)
Dennis Alwon said:
I believe it was Charlie B that thought not. . . .
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Did I say that? Huh? Well, if I did, then I was right. So there!
Dennis Alwon said:
. . . but I believe the rail at the loft needs a receptacle.
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See the comment above about my being right. ;)

Now that I have taken another sip of my coffee, I am beginning to recall having a discussion (debate?) of this topic. I believe I had said that a railing at the top of a staircase does not divide a room from another room, but rather divides a room from probable death (i.e., from falling over the precipice that would be created by the absence of a railing). If you were to look at an architectural plan (I do this a lot, in my job) of the second floor of the house, you would not see a "room" on both sides of the railing. Thus, it is not a "room divider."

More to the point, I believe a railing never requires a receptacle, because it is never considered wall space! Now before you all jump on me with 210.52(A)(2)(3), let me ask if anyone, anyone anywhere, has an English language dictionary that defines the word "afford" in any context that matches the use of that word (or the word, "afforded") in the manner used by that NEC article? Mine does not. The closest it comes is the definition, "to furnish or supply," and that does not do the job.

OK, let's get this one put to bed. I hereby pledge that by the end of the day tomorrow (Friday, 10/3), I will have submitted a proposed NEC revision that recommends eliminating the word "afforded," and that clarifies the intented meaning of "wall space." It should have a good chance of approval, since every single proposal I have ever submitted has been approved! Anyone else out there batting 1000 with a 4000 slugging percentage? ;) :grin:
 
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charlie b

charlie b

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roger3829 said:
That would make it a room divider. Someone could put a table with a lamps in front of it
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So perhaps it might be a good idea to put a floor-mounted receptacle by a railing. But the present wording of the NEC does not require them. Reference: Charlie's Rule. :wink:
 
LarryFine

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I think one criteria should be whether the loft space is more of a 'hallway' or a 'room' by it's shape and size, and intended/likely use. What is at each end of the rail space?

If it's a 3' wide catwalk, and only used as a passageway, no receptacle, but if it's a larger area that could contain a chair and/or table, then yes, a receptacle would be in order.

If this is something that was not considered in the original plans, then it's akin to the kitchen island that must have a receptacle nobody wants. If the AHJ requires it, the customer pays for it.

I did a house that had a catwalk-type of railing, with a single receptacle at one end, between bedroom doors, and several around the seating area at the other end.
 
S

SEO

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Location
Michigan
charlie b said:
;)
Did I say that? Huh? Well, if I did, then I was right. So there!
See the comment above about my being right. ;)

Now that I have taken another sip of my coffee, I am beginning to recall having a discussion (debate?) of this topic. I believe I had said that a railing at the top of a staircase does not divide a room from another room, but rather divides a room from probable death (i.e., from falling over the precipice that would be created by the absence of a railing). If you were to look at an architectural plan (I do this a lot, in my job) of the second floor of the house, you would not see a "room" on both sides of the railing. Thus, it is not a "room divider."

More to the point, I believe a railing never requires a receptacle, because it is never considered wall space! Now before you all jump on me with 210.52(A)(2)(3), let me ask if anyone, anyone anywhere, has an English language dictionary that defines the word "afford" in any context that matches the use of that word (or the word, "afforded") in the manner used by that NEC article? Mine does not. The closest it comes is the definition, "to furnish or supply," and that does not do the job.

OK, let's get this one put to bed. I hereby pledge that by the end of the day tomorrow (Friday, 10/3), I will have submitted a proposed NEC revision that recommends eliminating the word "afforded," and that clarifies the intented meaning of "wall space." It should have a good chance of approval, since every single proposal I have ever submitted has been approved! Anyone else out there batting 1000 with a 4000 slugging percentage? ;) :grin:
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Thats the best percentage that I've ever heard of!:smile:
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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I thought it was you Charlie.. I just found the thread-- you and I start disagree on this page.

This may save you some typing...:smile:. BTW I still disagree with you..:D
 
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