Is this within an inspectors scope?

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PlnOldRick

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Within the past couple of days a local inspector has decided that dwelling unit dishwashers are to no longer be cord and plug connected because and i quote "it just aint a safe way to disconnect'em for service". my new and current shop is a hardcore member of the good'ol boy network and believes that whatever the inspector says is the word of god. i tried telling them 422.16(b)(2) pretty much sums up that its acceptable to cord and plug connect them assuming you follow the requirements. But they continue to mutter the infamous AHJ jibber jabber.

so the question is can an inspector just decide a certain section of the code doesnt work for him and ignore it? according to what i have found the state of florida adopted the 2002 nec with no alteration and also the specific county i live in. they do have some changes such as no aluminum wire, no ground rods and #12 minimum size wire allowed in the city but all of these were amendments voted on and adopted by our board. wouldnt that in itself say that if they wanted to exclude that specific section about dishwashers it would need to be voted on? or does the inspector have the power to just decide certain code isnt to his liking and act accordingly?

for personal reference i actually prefer to hardwire them (dishwashers) and use a lockout. only reason i am asking is i am becoming ever more frustrated with this inspector knows all attitude that everyone around here takes. while the inspectors are inventing and deleting code as they see fit other codes are going seriously uninforced. seems like some sort of check on the system is needed locally and as always i end up being the champion of the ill fated.....

[ January 27, 2006, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: PlnOldRick ]
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

Rick,

A) You are correct.

B) You are certainly welcome to challenge the inspector, by going up the food chain.

C) If you're working for/under someone, and it's their company, do as they say.

D) I'd skip B if C is true.
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

Rick,

Can you ask for a ruling from your State Code enforcement?

I once lived in a town of 1200 population, that had an all-in-one inspector that was good at his job. But, once he failed a job I did because he did not like an exception that was listed in a code. My boss tried to convince him that but to no avail. So the boss called the State boys and asked for a ruling, which the AHJ finally accepted. However, the next few inspections we did was scrutinized rather close.
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

firstly, i do work for someone and would never do anything without thier approval.

secondly, while not in this trade for as long as most of you, i have seen and been kicked around for 5 years now. i am for the most part used to it and tend to accept 99% of everything thats shot my way.

third, i do in fact know the scrutiny going up the food chain brings. while i have not personally done it before i have witnessed it. my biggest battles have only been fought with the bottom end inspector. 9 times out of 10 they actually enjoy it as do i. had one go as far as saying its nice to see someone debate instead of mindlessly following.

our local 3 in sarasota were very good inspectors. always open and always willing to explain. here now is a whole different ball game. they pick and choose what they wish and exclude what they wish. forget a required wall space receptacle?, smoke detectors jammed next to returns?, multiple bathroom receps and lighting all being fed from 1 20a circuit?, GEC to short so you just lug it in a main lug panel on the load side, open bulb fixtures in a closet above a shelf?, the list goes on and on but DONT WORRY your part of the good'ol boy network so its ok. but while you are allowed to do all this you cant connect a dishwasher with a cord?

where does it begin and where does it stop? maybe i should just be a mindless idiot and just accept things as they are.....guess its the "i get paid by the hour attitude" for me.

sorry i guess this whole thing was more of a rant then an actual question. excuse me for now, i have to go burn down somone poor scmucks house.
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

Please don't misunderstand my response. With your employer's blessing, you should indeed challenge this point. I would.
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

I have found that some inspectors will pull something like this just to see if you know what you are doing and why. they actually want you to challenge them with the proper response and just want to see how you react to their incorrect call

discuss it with the inspector but have all your code facts and code book in hand
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

I am an inspections supervisor (not in Fla., sorry) and the first thing I beat into my guys heads is "It doesn't matter what you like or don't like, it is what the Code requires or allows". My department also requires a specific Code cite whenever an inspection fails to ensure that there is a Code violation, not just some guys opinion. Very few things rile me up more than an inspector on an ego trip.
As for what to do, all the previous advice is good. Never be afraid to ask the inspector to show you "where it says so in the book".
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

Originally posted by kqresq:
Never be afraid to ask the inspector to show you "where it says so in the book".
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BTW,I liked your whole post, but only quoted part of it. :(

Off topic: 1/2 of them don't even know about this site or others, they tend to be "Old School Country Boy Electricians" and could care less about the internet. I am glad I am here and I really enjoy this site. I have been coming here for a few years, but did not register until as of late. They tend to refer to me as a "high-tech redneck". :D
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

Originally posted by kqresq:
I am an inspections supervisor (not in Fla., sorry) and the first thing I beat into my guys heads is "It doesn't matter what you like or don't like, it is what the Code requires or allows". My department also requires a specific Code cite whenever an inspection fails to ensure that there is a Code violation, not just some guys opinion. Very few things rile me up more than an inspector on an ego trip.
As for what to do, all the previous advice is good. Never be afraid to ask the inspector to show you "where it says so in the book".
Click to expand...
Nicely Put, bravo!!
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

can an inspector just decide a certain section of the code doesnt work for him and ignore it?
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Yep !!! Happens all the time. But the saddest part of this is that in many cases there is usually some type of agency or authority over this inspector that may rule in your favor but adds some form of the following quote to their official interpretation "This opinion is, however, advisory in nature and, therefore non-binding on any of the parties concerned."

I've had situations where not only my State code interpretations dept., Mike Holt, Charles Miller and about 50 of the participants in this forum agreed with my interpretation of the code and yet a certain inspector still would not change his decision. My gripe with this is that if we're going to interpret the NEC in a certain way lets do it State wide and not by jurisdictions. Either stand behind the inspectors or stand behind the contractor. Don't sit on the fence !!!
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

Originally posted by marinesgt0411:
[QB] I have found that some inspectors will pull something like this just to see if you know what you are doing and why. QB]
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That is why we have testing for licensing. (Except for the undeveloped third world states :roll: ). These guys should stick to inspecting.
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

Scott, great point! :)

...but while you are allowed to do all this you cant connect a dishwasher with a cord?
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One note: I've noticed the cords we use are rated at 60?, and some of the dishwashers were demanding connection to 75? conductors. I realize the fella giving you trouble probably doesn't know this, but you should look into it. :)
 
Re: Is this within an inspectors scope?

Originally posted by georgestolz:
One note: I've noticed the cords we use are rated at 60?, and some of the dishwashers were demanding connection to 75? conductors. I realize the fella giving you trouble probably doesn't know this, but you should look into it. :)
Click to expand...
good point and truthfully i have never actually looked at the rating of the cords. im sure this isnt the specific case with this inspector since he is not allowing ANY cords at all, but worthy of note.

<rant>i sat here today wondering why the hell this ticked me off since i hardwire dishwashers anyway. i came to the conclusion that its because im basically sick of seeing people abuse the power given to them. police, politicians, insurance companies, inspectors and on and on and on. And your left with what choices? dig your grave or swallow your pride over and over again. i guess im more of a left wing tree hugging liberal then i thought because it sure would be nice to have a national system or at least statewide system that specifically outlines the scope of ones duties. unfortunatly i think i'll have more luck inventing a wireless electrical system powered by solar microwave energy for my house then doing anything about that.

btw i appreciate the fellow rantings
 
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