Island receptacles

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hillbilly

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Got a new home with a (24" x 48") island in the kitchen. I installed the receptacles in each end of the island, near the front. This was before the counter top was installed. I questioned the owner (in the beginning) about the counter top and he stated that it would only overhang the ends of the island 6" and the back 12". Yesterday I arrive to find that the counter top (Marble 38" x 72") has been installed and overhangs the island 12" on each end and the back and 2" on the front.
The receptacles are still accessible because they're near the front of the cabinet. If you stand in front of the island you can see the receptacles on each end, about 6" down and back about 4". From the front they're OK, but from the ends the counter top overhangs them 12"
Any thoughts (other than tell him that it's his problem)? I can't move them to the front because of doors in the cabinet, and I have the same overhang on the other side. Plus, I've already mounted two receptacles (cut holes) in the cabinet.
Long post for a small problem, but still a problem.
I know that I should have waited until the counter tops were installed but it took about 5 weeks to get the tops and I needed to paid.
This is a good customer whom I want to keep happy.
Would you do anything, or just let it ride?
thanks
steve
 
It's technically not good enough, but personally, I'd wait for a tag. There's no win to this situation.

Is there an upper cabinet over it, perchance?
 
Most inspectors do try to bend a little in situations that they know you did your best to comply.Be best to be there for the inspection and exsplain what happened.Makes his job and yours easier.
 
As a code professional I would'nt be doing my job if I did not write that violation up. Remember that the NEC is only the minimum requirements. But at the same time if it as close as you could get and the intent was there I would sign it off.
 
I would be there with the owner to witness the inspection, and if/when it fails, I'd ask the inspector for suggestions for a suitable fix or two. (Personally, I'd pass what you did, but nobody has asked me.)

Then I'd turn to the owner and ask "Okay, now that you understand why I asked about the countertop before I did the work, how would you like me to procede, knowing it's at my time-and-materials rate?"
 
LarryFine said:
Then I'd turn to the owner and ask "Okay, now that you understand why I asked about the countertop before I did the work, how would you like me to procede, knowing it's at my time-and-materials rate?"
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And a $35 reinspect fee!
 
Welcome to contracting hell. I cannot count how many times similar has happened to me. Worse part is when they suddenly get all forgetful and try to pretend that they were not informed in advance.
 
Can you suggest to the owner that the counter top be moved 6 inches to one side or the other? That would make the overhang 6 inches on one side and 18 inches on the other. I would then remove the receptacle on the side with the 18 inch overhang, and take credit for the other one as being the one and only one that is required. The next suggestion would be to have the owner send the counter top back and either get one 60 inches wide or have this one cut to that size.
 
charlie b said:
Can you suggest to the owner that the counter top be moved 6 inches to one side or the other? That would make the overhang 6 inches on one side and 18 inches on the other. I would then remove the receptacle on the side with the 18 inch overhang, and take credit for the other one as being the one and only one that is required. The next suggestion would be to have the owner send the counter top back and either get one 60 inches wide or have this one cut to that size.
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Why remove the other ? Only one was needed and he has it,others are allowed but just cant qualify for the required
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Why remove the other ? Only one was needed and he has it,others are allowed but just cant qualify for the required
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This was debated several months ago. I don?t recall the outcome, but I am fairly sure that I won. ;) :D :)

The discussion centered around the concept of, ?Once you meet the code minimum, can you add things that the code does not require?? I believe that the answer is sometimes yes and sometimes no, and that it depends on how that particular code article is worded.

In this case, I supported the proposition that once you have the required receptacle on an island or peninsula, and that presumes it is below an overhang that does not exceed 6 inches, you are certainly free to add more receptacles to that island or peninsula. However, every receptacle you add still has to meet the 6 inch rule. You cannot install a receptacle under a 12 inch overhang, even if you have a qualifying receptacle elsewhere on the island.

I don?t have the energy to look up the older discussion, and I don?t want to hijack this thread to reopen that debate. If you want to look it up, and if you wish to discuss it further, then let me suggest a new thread be started, with a link to the older discussion.
 
charlie b said:

This was debated several months ago. I don?t recall the outcome, but I am fairly sure that I won. ;) :D :)

The discussion centered around the concept of, ?Once you meet the code minimum, can you add things that the code does not require?? I believe that the answer is sometimes yes and sometimes no, and that it depends on how that particular code article is worded.

In this case, I supported the proposition that once you have the required receptacle on an island or peninsula, and that presumes it is below an overhang that does not exceed 6 inches, you are certainly free to add more receptacles to that island or peninsula. However, every receptacle you add still has to meet the 6 inch rule. You cannot install a receptacle under a 12 inch overhang, even if you have a qualifying receptacle elsewhere on the island.

I don?t have the energy to look up the older discussion, and I don?t want to hijack this thread to reopen that debate. If you want to look it up, and if you wish to discuss it further, then let me suggest a new thread be started, with a link to the older discussion.
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Hopefully someone can link us to it.
 
charlie b said:
This was debated several months ago. I don?t recall the outcome, but I am fairly sure that I won. ;) :D :)
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I don't remember it that way!:confused:

I'll look for the link, but as much as I respect Charlie, he and I completely disagree on that topic.
 
hillbilly "no red flag, all is well"

how is all well, your job is a code violation and you know it


jim w, "proves that some inspectors do understand limits and will bend"

there are no limits in this situation, and an inspector should not bend, this is a clear code violation that passed
 
I gave up after page 7
What stops anyone from using any receptacle for anything ?Given a cord long enough and they might plug the mr coffee into the garage door opener receptacle.If it is not in the aproved space then we simply can not say it serves the counter.I will admit in this case it will likely be used to serve the counter top but that is the owners mistake.What if my cord reaches to the one thats at 21 inches ?What if the outlet happens to be a switched outlet off a lighting circuit ?If we so desire we could put 5,000 outlets in that kitchen and cover every square inch of ceiling ,wall,floor ,cabinet,etc..We can not make then use the legal one.If they pick the one that does not comply i would assume it was the one they liked the best for what they are doing.

Hillbilly we will visit you in jail.
 
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mpd said:
an inspector should not bend, this is a clear code violation that passed
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It's not that clear. While it's clear to you and me that it's a violation, there are some that would say that it's not since it's within 6" of the front edge.

Plus, I personally hate the requirement for an island receptacle.:mad: ;)
 
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