ITE-Murray-Siemens breaker and panel approvals?

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tersh

Senior Member
Location
new york
I bought Siemens QF230A & QF260A 2-pole breakers with listed Siemens P1224B1100CU load center panel. They were supposed to be compatible. But see the huge gaps between the spring clips and bus bar.


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Siemens emailed me yesterday and said: "Engineering is in process of getting these breakers to check in load centers. They will be sending me their findings & I will let you know their results when available."

I'm still waiting for the results.

Do you guys consider the gaps as still within tolerances? Does this happen to other models of the breakers and panels too of same brand? Do you see the gaps too?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Yes. So why do you think all the breakers are burning ? any thoughts ?
Were they new breakers when the panel was installed? If they were compromised in another panel by an overheating bus and got moved to this new panel - they may have had a compromised connection from day one of the change out.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Could the burning breakers be environmental related?
The home owner lives in Hawaii I'm in Jersey, his house is for sale and empty.
The panel is in a small basement. The basement is 3/4 below grade. It has a sump pump that ejects about every ten minutes. The sump hole is about eight feet away from the panel.
It's an older house. The Panel has a passed inspection sticker on in from 2014, the passed sticker says "panel only".

The buss is corroding (see attachment). I'm thinking it's not the first time thats why it was replaced in 2014. I'm also thinking the breakers were new and had a good connection to the buss but the buss has been corroding and now the connections are compromised. Also in the attachment notice the rust on the bottom, there are no water lines running down the inside of the panel.

Condensation from the sump hole ??

Do you think the panel should be replaced or can it be cleaned (I'm thinking replace) Do you think a dehumidifier would help... yet If so would not want to rely on a dehumidifier... would copper bus help or STOP this from happening again.

Does this theory sound correct?

Thoughts?
 

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jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Corroded busbars stabs and breaker contacts can't be cleaned. They should be replaced, or at the very least in the case of stabs, taken out of service and labeled as such.

Corrosion at contacts is like a contagious disease. Take a corroded breaker and put it in a fresh panel and now it will arc and cause corrosion on the busbar. (Perhaps that's what happened here? Someone reused the old breakers?) Replace the breaker with a new one and the now-corroded busbar will cause the arcing and now the new breaker is compromised. Sand or scrape the corrosion off and now you have poor contact on pitted surfaces and the arcing starts again. And so on...
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Could the burning breakers be environmental related?
The home owner lives in Hawaii I'm in Jersey, his house is for sale and empty.
The panel is in a small basement. The basement is 3/4 below grade. It has a sump pump that ejects about every ten minutes. The sump hole is about eight feet away from the panel.
It's an older house. The Panel has a passed inspection sticker on in from 2014, the passed sticker says "panel only".

The buss is corroding (see attachment). I'm thinking it's not the first time thats why it was replaced in 2014. I'm also thinking the breakers were new and had a good connection to the buss but the buss has been corroding and now the connections are compromised. Also in the attachment notice the rust on the bottom, there are no water lines running down the inside of the panel.

Condensation from the sump hole ??

Do you think the panel should be replaced or can it be cleaned (I'm thinking replace) Do you think a dehumidifier would help... yet If so would not want to rely on a dehumidifier... would copper bus help or STOP this from happening again.

Does this theory sound correct?

Thoughts?
How close is it to salt water?
 

norcal

Senior Member
Older Crouse-Hinds panels were marked to accept ITE, GE, & I think Bryant breakers, in addition to the OEM MP breakers.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
How close is it to salt water?

No salt water around that I know of but the hole in the floor with the sump pump that's always running I'm thinking may have a lot of minerals (salt) in the water.

As mentioned it looks like panel changes have happened before. Does copper buss corrode ? (But I'm guessing the intrtnsls of breakers could still be affected. )

Go out on a limb here and highest putting it in another enclosure ?? 3R or something ?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
No salt water around that I know of but the hole in the floor with the sump pump that's always running I'm thinking may have a lot of minerals (salt) in the water.

As mentioned it looks like panel changes have happened before. Does copper buss corrode ? (But I'm guessing the intrtnsls of breakers could still be affected. )

Go out on a limb here and highest putting it in another enclosure ?? 3R or something ?
3R will only protect from falling water (rain), vapors will still enter a 3R cabinet.

If corrosion is serious issue you need 13x, as well as 13x entry methods. Might be worth looking into relocation to a dryer area or finding a way to make current location dryer such as installing ventilation and/or vapor barriers.
 
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