ite pushomatic

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mdshunk said:
I work on a piece of Westinghouse gear in an old police station that's pretty much the same way. Pretty cool, except you need to remove 9,000 screws to get enough covers off do do anything.
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So only about half the screws that it takes to get access into old FPE switch gear. :cool:
 
brian john said:
And my Grandmother from Avon Mass (near Boston) called the couch the Davenport?, front porch the piazza (SP), a sub a grinder and a milk shake a frappe. Them people speak another whole language.
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I'll bet more then a few of us here still call a CD a record.
 
Flex, attached are some pics of the newer style ITE Pushmatic Electri-Centers that I removed recently. These are not the older "Bulldog Push-Matic" split-bus style panels. Bulldog Electric started in Detroit years ago. They were later bought out by ITE and they continued to manufacture the Pushmatic style breakers for a few years under the ITE name. You can still buy replacement breakers through Siemen's ITE.

I've worked with hundreds of these panels in the southeast Michigan area through the years and below are the most common problems encountered with older Push-Matic/Pushmatic breakers:

They are thermal breakers with no magnetic trip. Unlike modern breakers that incorporate both magnetic and thermal tripping mechanisms, (The new replacement Siemen's ITE Pushmatics have both). This increases the safety in the event of an overload or short circuit.

The design of the old breaker is such that over time they can become stiff and difficult to operate or reset.

Push-Matic breakers have an indicator flag showing whether the circuit is on or off. Some times on old Push-Matic breakers this on/off flag will stay fixed in either position, giving you a false indication of the condition of the circuit.

And due to the fact that Push-Matic breakers are bolted directly on to a hot buss, and the older were split busses adding to the confusion, many unqualified people have attempted to remove or replace breakers in this type of panel...Ouch.

Just thought I'd pass on this accumulated knowledge as I grew up in the area where there are probably more old Bulldog/ITE Push-Matic's in service than anywhere on the planet. :smile:
 
Good post dreamsville I've worked on hundreds as well. They were very common is Southeastern Michigan as you mentioned. Ever see a screw cross threaded, burnt off or broken off? We used to see that a lot.
 
I worked in an older house with the pushomatic breakers. Homeowner disconnected wall light himself and somehow pushed the wires back in the box without wirenuts on with no problem. Trying to pull them back out of the metal box i kept hittin the side and it just kept arcing until finally i got it out. I would think that a newer breaker would trip but lack of proper grounding might have been the only reason the breaker didnt trip.
 
i didnt know it was live, assumed with no wirenuts on it and tucked in the box it was dead. i was surpised it arced more than once, i figured after the first arc it tripped the breaker.
 
Flex said:
i didnt know it was live, assumed with no wirenuts on it and tucked in the box it was dead. i was surpised it arced more than once, i figured after the first arc it tripped the breaker.
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You'd think that someone would invent a tester for situations like this...:rolleyes:
 
G0049 said:
You'd think that someone would invent a tester for situations like this...:rolleyes:
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Thanks captain awesome for such a cool comment as I am sure youve never ever assumed anything in life. Nobodys perfect, made a mistake and I knew it. Not askin if I should have tested it I am askin if a new style breaker would trip under those circumstances.
 
Flex said:
Thanks captain awesome for such a cool comment as I am sure youve never ever assumed anything in life. Nobodys perfect, made a mistake and I knew it. Not askin if I should have tested it I am askin if a new style breaker would trip under those circumstances.
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Maybe, maybe not. I think I could quickly scrape some terminal screws, energized at 120 volts, across marginally grounded metal all day long.

In your case, you were suspicious of the quality of the bonding. I suspect the same, since no one historically has ever really questioned the reliability of a PushMatic under overload or short circuit conditions. Where some people have had problems is actually turning them on or off via the handle.
 
mdshunk said:
Maybe, maybe not. I think I could quickly scrape some terminal screws, energized at 120 volts, across marginally grounded metal all day long.
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So bonding to a metal box like that is almost pointless cause it wouldnt trip?

(edit) didnt read your whole post. the breakers themselves seemed to operate fine so i guess theres no real reason to take out that panel.
 
Flex said:
So bonding to a metal box like that is almost pointless cause it wouldnt trip?
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You ever really looked at a published trip curve? Or the max trip curve the UL allows? They're pretty generous. If you were "sparking", this was not a bolted fault. On a more personal note, you're a knucklehead for trying it a second time on the assumption that the breaker tripped.
 
I don't have much experience with Pushmatics as they are rare here, but I'll relay the same story that I have in the past. I replaced an outlet in and old wiremold system where they did not run an wire EGC and the wire that did feed it was the old romex with the reduced ground wire. Evidently when I pushed the outlet back into the box it caused a short (nasty old TW conductors.) The breaker was a Pushmatic and it tripped instantly, even with the unknown reliability of the impedance of the bonding path. I was very impressed.

Also, these same Pushmatics in the same panel were used to turn on and off a set of lights as there was no wall switches in the room for the lights. On and off for thousands of cycles over many decades and the breakers are still fine.
 
peter d said:
Also, these same Pushmatics in the same panel were used to turn on and off a set of lights as there was no wall switches in the room for the lights. On and off for thousands of cycles over many decades and the breakers are still fine.
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That pretty much mirrors my experience with them. Of the times on the 'net that I've heard about the handle problem, nearly always it's been an outdoor panel. Outdoor panels, in general, suffer shorter lifespans. I suppose that's why the northeast has darned few outdoor panel installs.
 
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