J-Box above Suspended ceiling

[hbiss]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

314.29 Boxes and Conduit Bodies to Be Accessible.
Boxes and conduit bodies shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building...

I think this pretty much says it all.

I can put an extension ladder up through a suspended ceiling without taking the grid apart.

Don't know about you but I couldn't get my a** and a ladder through a 2x2' opening or the 2' side of a 2x4'. Besides, you going to lean an extension ladder on the ceiling grid

 

[jimwalker]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

If we fully apply 314.29 we are in deep s---
REMOVE is a nasty word.
when you REMOVE that 2 x 4 panel we now violated the code.Note it did not say without damage.
The more i read this NEC the more it looks like on our staff we better have an english teacher and a lawyer.

 

[tonyi]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

I'd argue that since the tile is removable and the grid is designed so tiles can be removed, then they're no more "part of the building" than any other removable access panels.

If its viewed any other way, virtually every 6' whip on 2x4's is rendered illegal - they all go to j-boxes above grids.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

I only posted that to show how badly some things are stated in the code.We all know we must have box's up there.

 

[binney]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

I do not believe an inspector is allowed to make "judgment calls".

How about article 90.4 ".....The AHJ for enforcement of the Code has the resposibility for making interpretations of the rules,

I don't agree, but this is his interpretaion of the code.

 

[pierre]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

My following statement will probably p#&*$ some people off, oh well....

I have been reading a lot of complaining about the language of the code lately in this forum.For those unhappy souls, I would suggest that you sit down and try to reword some of the 'poorly written' sections yourself and see just how hard it is. No matter how some of the code is written, there is always someone who will 'interpret' it as to mean something else.

Yes some of the code can be tended to, send in your suggestions and you may be surprised at how welcome suggestions and help in rewording or writing new code language is appreciated. The men and women who write the NEC are VOLUNTEERS and are HUMAN. They make mistakes and sometimes it is not easy to come up with the language that works for all.

Because of the vast size of our industry and the large number of people involved, it is virtually impossible to account for all work that 'can' be installed.

I am not an inspector, but if there is an unsafe installation, such as a junction box 12 feet above a drop ceiling with all of the other good stuff that is installed above these ceilings, than for safety reasons (how about common sense) I am going to side with the 'judgement' of the inspector.

P.S. Take a look at the Safety site today - electrician killed (electrocuted) in a drop ceiling - it is appropriate for this thread.

Pierre

[ December 21, 2003, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]

 

[iwire]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

Pierre I for one am not upset and I have much respect for the people that write the code.

I come at this from the way it works in the states I work.

MA Code

90.6. Revise to read as follows:
90.6 Interpretations and Appeals. To promote
uniformity of interpretation and application of the provisions of this Code, interpretations may be requested from the Board of Fire Prevention Regulations.

Requests for interpretation shall be in the
form of a question that can receive a ?Yes? or ?No? answer.

This in no way supersedes the right of any
individual who is aggrieved by the decision of an
Inspector of Wires to appeal from that decision to
the Board of Electricians? Appeals in accordance
with M.G.L. c. 143 ?3P. The Board of Fire Prevention Regulations shall, upon the request of theBoard of Electricians? Appeals, render interpretations to the Board of Electricians? Appeals.

It is customary to revise this Code periodically
to conform with developments in the art
and the result of experience, and the current edition of the Code shall always be used.

The AHJ is at the state level, the inspector who comes out to the job is not the AHJ.

If the local inspector interprets the code in a way the installer has a problem with they can go to the state AHJ for the "official" interpretation.

80.2 Definitions.

Authority Having Jurisdiction. The organization, office, or individual responsible for approving equipment, materials, an installation, or a procedure.


Electrical Inspector. An individual meeting the requirements of 80.27 and authorized to perform electrical inspections.

It is patiently unfair to electricians to have each and every inspector make their own interpretations.

I wire a job that passes in 10 towns and then go to the 11 th town and fail because the local guy has a different interpretation of a certain rule.

The men and women who write the NEC are VOLUNTEERS and are HUMAN.

Very true and the men and women who enforce the code are human too, that is why each will have a different opinion on each code rule.

For this reason there has to be clear and enforceable rules.

Pierre, I want to know what code article you would cite for a j box being 25' above the suspended ceiling.

[ December 21, 2003, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[iwire]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

I will add this, Don posted this here and I firmly believe it to be true, the code is adopted here as law you can not have people putting their own spin on it even when their reasons are justified.

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
Bob F,
90.4 does not give any inspector the legal authority to rewrite the code. If the local governmental body that had adopted the code has made a change, that is fine, but the inspector cannot require anything other than what has been adopted.
Don

 

[pierre]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

Bob
I am probably splitting hairs here - Art 100 definition of Accessible(as applied to equipment) Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, ELEVATION, or other effective means. I know that is pretty weak

You and Don and the others are very much correct and I also firmly believe that 90.4 does not give the inspector the right to read his own code.

Sometimes it really comes down to common sense and experience.

Pierre

 

[bennie]

Re: J-Box above Suspended ceiling

The elevation could make the box inaccessable, for practical purposes.

I think that text would hold up.