Jacuzzi tub "bonding"

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lawelectric

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Jacuzzi tub in res. bathroom has motor with external ground lug.
680-74 (2002) 680-73 (1999) requires that all metal parts be bonded via a #8 solid bonding jumper (in short)..my inspector (California) demands that I run a #8 solid back to the panel to this external ground lug. This certainly sounds like an equipment ground, not a bonding jumper. The house has plastic plumbing lines. Isn't the motor grounded via the equipiment ground from the romex/cord? Isn't the external lug to bond any other metal parts that may be present?
Like to hear opinions.
Thanks in advance.
 
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I agree with Marc, the inspector is mistaken. As he said ask for a code reference.
 
rcarroll said:
Also, show the inspector the fine print note to 680.26.
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Good point.

FPN:This section does not require that the 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode.
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Nah, the metal ones work fine. :)

Law, you might also bring up that 680.74 has changed in the 2005. Although it is sort of unenforceable in your area since they have not adopted the 2005 yet, it will ice the cake on your disagreement.

680.74 Bonding. All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid.
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The requirement has been reduced to only the piping that comes with the tub, in the 2005. Since this plumbing is generally plastic anyway, no action is required for installers under the 2005 NEC.

The Code Making Panel decided that the additional bonding required at bathtubs was unnecessary.

CMP-17 statement, Proposal 17-183 in the ROP leading to the 2005 NEC:
Panel Statement: The need for bonding in a bathroom differs from the need for bonding in a pool area. Electrical equipment of a hydromassage bathtub is not accessible to users of the tub. Only parts that can cause a voltage gradient in the bathtub need to be bonded. Section 680.74 has been concisely reworded to require the bonding of only the parts that present a risk of creating voltage gradients in the hydromassage bathtub.
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Its interesting that this came up - I was just going to ask the same question. Yesterday I went and looked at a remodel that I will be doing, and while looking in tub manual for electrical requirements, i read this, "A number 8 conductor must be run from the lug on the motor to the ground bar of the panel." It was my understanding that egc of the tub supply grounded the tub. Has anyone else come across this? I assume I have to do as the manual states to install it per its listing even if it is not a code requirement?
 
electrofelon said:
I assume I have to do as the manual states to install it per its listing even if it is not a code requirement?
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Some manuals say a lot of dumb stuff. That's what we have to follow, though. It won't offer any extra benefit, but it won't hurt a blessed thing. It's just wasteful.
 
Revision to 680.74 in 2005 refers to the metallic parts of a double insulated pump/motor that are not in contact with the water cirrculating system not required to be bond. If a copper water line system is install in the structure and servre the tub and located in tub area must bonded to non-double insulated motors.
 
Bea said:
Revision to 680.74 in 2005 refers to the metallic parts of a double insulated pump/motor that are not in contact with the water cirrculating system not required to be bond. If a copper water line system is install in the structure and servre the tub and located in tub area must bonded to non-double insulated motors.
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I disagree. The supply to the tub could be a copper water line but it not required to be bonded to anything at the tub since it is not part of the water recirculation system.
 
rcarroll said:
Also, show the inspector the fine print note to 680.26. I hope you win this one.
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I just don't see how 680-26 is relavant to this issue...I'm talking about a hydromessage bathtub, not a swimming pool...of course, this inspector doesn't know the proper code anyway!
 
I know you're talking about a hydro tub. My point is, if you don't have to take the pool bond conductor to an equipment ground bar, you sure as heck don't have to take a hydro tub bond wire to a ground bar.
 
Hmmm...I'll take the opposing view. [All metal piping systems] [and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water] shall be bonded together.......read seperately it has a whole different meaning.
 
electricmanscott said:
Hmmm...I'll take the opposing view. [All metal piping systems] [and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water] shall be bonded together.......read separately it has a whole different meaning.
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You could do that but your interpretation would be incorrect because the sentence says and, meaning both parts are to be taken together.
 
Reason for ground lug on whirlpool motor is:

Reason for ground lug on whirlpool motor is:

A breaker and a ground fault circuit interrupter will not work when the nuetral and ground (white and bare or green) are lost, therefore the water in the pipe and tub weather it is plastic or copper becomes the source back to ground so the person that is in the tub will die of electricution when the motor fails because it got so hot the white and bare wire broke connection and the black wire layed up against a wet motor casing . With the green #8 solid wire hooked on the motor lug of the whirlpool and the ground bar in the panel or on the first 5 feet of copper or metal water line that enters the house before the water meter will still allow the breaker and the ground fault circuit interrupter to continue working and the person in the tub will stay alive because the breaker tripped. The propper wiring installation for a tub that has a ground lug on the motor is the same for both plastic and metal plumbing systems: Run a continous #8 bare copper or green wire from the panels ground bar and terminate very tightly put ground clamp(s) on all metal parts at the tub and sleeve the #8 through the grounding clamp(s) without cutting the wire allowing enough to hook under the ground lug at whirlpool and put a 90 degree hook on the #8 so it can't pull out of the lug and terminate this wire very tightly because this is your livly hood and you need to make sure that every time someone steps in a bathtub filled with water that you wired will stay safe and alive. The only exception to losing the #8 solid ground wire would be to use a plastic motor with no ground lug and only a 2 prong male plug without the grounding or 3rd prong.
 
Wizzard, Did you mean to post in your thread?

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Grounding a whirlpool with plastic pipe through out intire home

You are mistaken about the reason for the ground lug on the motor.

A breaker and a ground fault circuit interrupter will not work when the neutral and ground (white and bare or green) are lost,
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A GFCI will work without an EGC and with a lost neutral to the load it will trip right away.

The propper wiring installation for a tub that has a ground lug on the motor is the same for both plastic and metal plumbing systems: Run a continous #8 bare copper or green wire from the panels ground bar and terminate very tightly put ground clamp(s) on all metal parts at the tub and sleeve the #8 through the grounding clamp(s) without cutting the wire allowing enough to hook under the ground lug at whirlpool and put a 90 degree hook on the #8 so it can't pull out of the lug and terminate this wire very tightly because this is your livly hood and you need to make sure that every time someone steps in a bathtub filled with water that you wired will stay safe and alive. The only exception to losing the #8 solid ground wire would be to use a plastic motor with no ground lug and only a 2 prong male plug without the grounding or 3rd prong.
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All of that may be your method but little of it is NEC required or necessary and I don't think any tub comes with a two prong plug
 
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Wizzz, inhale!

You're confusing bonding with grounding. The purpose of bonding is to eliminate potential differences between conductive parts. Bonding can exist without grounding.

Activating the circuit protective device is the function of the ECG run wth the circuit conductors. The bonding needs to be done whether or not the motor is double insulated.
 
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