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jmshiller

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Just checking to see if I can get some help on a code issue. We have a 277/480 volt panelboard that is feed from a meter feeder and is straight 3 phase with no neutral loads or requirements. My inspector says I need a neutral because it is a panel and listed 277/480. Also this is not the service. Could use some help on code references.
 
jms

jmshiller said:
Just checking to see if I can get some help on a code issue. We have a 277/480 volt panelboard that is feed from a meter feeder and is straight 3 phase with no neutral loads or requirements. My inspector says I need a neutral because it is a panel and listed 277/480. Also this is not the service. Could use some help on code references.
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No code referenced, by my inspector.
 
Age old fight. If he feels it is a violation, her should give you a reference.
For the most part, the NEC is a "permissive" Code. Unless it tells you it can't be done, it is allowed.
As you describe it, I can't see where the install as is does not meet Code.
Can you respectfully ask for his supervisor's opinion ?
 
jmshiller said:
Just checking to see if I can get some help on a code issue. We have a 277/480 volt panelboard that is feed from a meter feeder and is straight 3 phase with no neutral loads or requirements. My inspector says I need a neutral because it is a panel and listed 277/480. Also this is not the service. Could use some help on code references.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean when you say it is fed by a "meter feeder". 250.24(C) requires the grounded conductor to be run to service equipment even if no loads utilize the grounded conductor. Beyond the service if the grounded conductor is not needed for any loads it is totally optional.
 
jms

For starters thanks for the input. What I have is a meter and tenant disconnect supplied by a 1000 amp 3phase 4 wire main. This is a 200 amp feeder and meter. As I understand it (don't have code references) the main and up to the tenant meters require the neutral. As my inspector explained it we could land straight 3 phase 480 into a transformer or motor but not a panelboard. I am trying to find out where in the code it may state that? This panelboard is a 480 volt 3 phase, its supplies a 45 KVA Xmer, hot water and HVAC, again all 480 volts and 3 phase. There are no 277 volt circuits. Appreciate any comments.
 
Barring a local ordinance, you are not required to install the neutral once you leave the service.
250.24(C) might help.
 
Based on your desciption, I would agree with the others that the inspector is wrong. If budget allows though, it might not be a bad idea to include a minimum neutral based on Table 250.122 if you think there is a possibility of someone needing 277 and help prevent a future bootleg neutral situation by some hack. But of course that is a design choice.
 
jms

I would agree that for little cost the addition of the neutral would be better. However the is a situation that was existing. The 480/277 panel is land locked with no spare raceways and the adjacent 120/208 pane has spare raceways and circuit breakers. This is a small sandwich shop with no needs to add any addition branch circuits.
 
If it is not the service you are not required to pull a neutral if there are no loads that utilize the neutral, I think from what you have described this is not the service. Unless there is a local rule tell your inspector to pound sand.

Though not as common you can do this with 120/240 volts also, most people don't because someone that doesn't know any better will come along someday and add 120 volt loads, with 277/480 the chances of future installers knowing more what they are doing usually increases.
 
JMS

JMS

I want to thank all you guys, as for the forum I tend to be an observer though licensed in several states. This project is in Lee County, FL and our inspectors are reasonable. But starting tomorrow I am preparing to present my case. This issue has delayed my job.
To some of the more familiar names I see (and respect) I was in business in Washington (Redmond) for 25 years, took the Admin. test when passing was in the low percentages. Again Thanks.
 
Sounds to me like the inspector is hung up on the nameplate of the panelboard which includes 277 volts even though the panel will not have a 277 volt component. So the question is can he reject that panelboard with only a 480 feeder?
 
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