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Jockey pump and fire pump

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H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Please see attached sketch it shows service conductor call it A tapped from the line side of the main switchboard six main service disconnects.


The service conductor A then goes into trough where it is connected to conductor B which feed jockey pump controller service rated and the service conductor A is connected to conductor C which feed fire pump controller service rated.


The jockey pump controller and the fire pump controller service rated are both remote from the main service switchboard and room.

I have the following questions:


1. Does not the jockey pump controller need to be grouped with the main service switchboard and Not be remote? I do not see any exception in NEC 2017 section 230.72 for jockey pump service disco to be grouped.


2. Is jockey pump considered water pump? Not sure if 230.72(A) exception regarding water pump apply or not

3. I know you can have additional service disco for fire pump more than six however in the diagram below the jockey pump controller service disconnect would make it seventh main service disconnect when counted with main service switchboard. I dont see any exception for jockey pump to have 7th service disco 230.70 or 230.70? Would jockey pump service disco count as 7th service disco or if exception which section is it?


0b72db68a697c08c6739dc9cb77706f2.jpg
 
H

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
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Engineer/Technician
Few questions for this test also…

1. What article covers jockey pumps?

2. What article tells how jockey pumps are treated?

3. what is a jockey pump?
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Hv&Lv said:
Few questions for this test also…

1. What article covers jockey pumps?

2. What article tells how jockey pumps are treated?

3. what is a jockey pump?
Click to expand...

1. Not sure
2. Not sure either
3. Pressure maintain pump? Guess


Please please can you please let me know what you think post #1
 
H

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
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Occupation
Engineer/Technician
hhsting said:
1. Not sure
2. Not sure either
3. Pressure maintain pump? Guess


Please please can you please let me know what you think post #1
Click to expand...
If you have a .pdf of the NEC try to search for term and find the answers to those questions.
 
H

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
hhsting said:
I dont have pdf
Click to expand...
There are many available free online, or the municipality you work at really should provide you with one..
If I just give you the answers “yes” ”no”, “yes”, what will you learn?
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Hv&Lv said:
There are many available free online, or the municipality you work at really should provide you with one..
Click to expand...

They provided hard copy book handbook not electronic versions

Please can you help?

Or does anyone in here know?
 
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H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Hv&Lv said:
Few questions for this test also…

1. What article covers jockey pumps?

2. What article tells how jockey pumps are treated?

3. what is a jockey pump?
Click to expand...

1. 695?
2. That i dont know. Which?
3. Pressure maintainemace pump based on 695 but i dont know if its water pump too
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Hv&Lv said:
There are many available free online, or the municipality you work at really should provide you with one..
If I just give you the answers “yes” ”no”, “yes”, what will you learn?
Click to expand...

If you gave yes or no then next question would be based on what section nec 2017
 
H

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
hhsting said:
What does post #1 questions have anything to do with 695.

Will 695 say anything about grouping, anything about jockey pump disco remote allowed or not and last question #3 post #1
Click to expand...
You sure have a funny way of saying thank you…
Just read 695 from the beginning and see if any bells go off.
Its amazing how interconnected different articles are and how they lead you down a path of knowledge.
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Hv&Lv said:
You sure have a funny way of saying thank you…
Just read 695 from the beginning and see if any bells go off.
Its amazing how interconnected different articles are and how they lead you down a path of knowledge.
Click to expand...

695.1(B) does not cover install of pressure maintenance pump (jockey pump) info note says see 430

So what does all this have to do with post #1 3 questions? They are about jockey pump service disco grouping, service disco remote or not and would jockey pump be water pump mentioned in 230.72(A) exception

Thanks for the info though
 
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H

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
hhsting said:
695.1(B) does not cover install of pressure maintenance pump (jockey pump) info note says see 430

So what does all this have to do with post #1 3 questions? They are about jockey pump service disco grouping, service disco remote or not and would jockey pump be water pump mentioned in 230.72(A) exception

Thanks for the info though
Click to expand...
Is anything covered by 430 able to have a disconnect remote from grouped disconnects?
 
H

hhsting

Senior Member
Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
Hv&Lv said:
Is anything covered by 430 able to have a disconnect remote from grouped disconnects?
Click to expand...
Explain this if jockey pump can be supplied by fire pump circuit as info note says 695.1(b)(2) and fire pump disco is remote how can jockey pump disco not be? Supplied from fire pump circuit. Its confusing

Also,
I would imagine water pump service disco mentioned in NEC 2017 section 230.72(A) exception can be remote. According to blue text water pump is not covered by 695 which I am guess would be covered by 430

But then what is water pump mentioned in that section? Is it jockey pump? Black code exception text says water pump is also intended to provide fire protection

8dc378e51419f5c5fd79c7d99fd04208.jpg
 
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T

Tulsa Electrician

Senior Member
Location
Tulsa
Occupation
Electrician
I say it not a jockey pump since a jockey pump is not related to normal water supply. The jockey pump maintains ( maintenance/ maintain pump) pressure on the fire (sprinkler)systems to prevent false alarms.
Let's say they have a roof tank and use this for gravity feed normal water supply and fire suppression. This would be normal water supply and fire protection. This would be the water pump feeding this system. Then exception would apply.
This pump would be allowed to be remote and would count as one of the six handles.
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
As Tom suggested, I would not make any decision without consulting NFPA20.
The jockey pump is allowed to be fed by the fire pump service although the ones I have seen were on the building service.

695.4(A) might play a part concerning the "direct connection to the fire pump controller"
An additional service is allowed up to 6 disconnects but the mechanics of adding one while conmpying with 695.4 wouod be trick IMO.
 
G

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Where a jockey pump is not required to on any of the alternate power systems, the disconnect is not required to be remote. (See answer to your other jockey pump question.)
Local codes may have different rules than NFPA 20 or NFPA 101.
 
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