I just put in a new se cable and panelboard but I had to move it around 6 ft away from old service to be in code. I'm using the old panel as a junction box. My question is does the cover have to be bolted/screwed down or is the swing open door with its latch ok. It is an old Edison style box so whole front swings up. Thanks if you can point me in right direction it meets the construction thickness requirements and I plugged up the extra holes.
Junction Box Question
- Thread starter hoardac
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Re: Junction Box Question
I can't cite a code reference, but I think junction boxes containing power wiring should take tools to open. I wouldn't want my kids to be able to open the door and grab a handfull of splice.
Also, if it were still a breaker panel, and some of the breakers had been removed leaving a hole behind the door, that would be a violation. So I don't see any difference now that it's a junction box.
Steve
I can't cite a code reference, but I think junction boxes containing power wiring should take tools to open. I wouldn't want my kids to be able to open the door and grab a handfull of splice.
Also, if it were still a breaker panel, and some of the breakers had been removed leaving a hole behind the door, that would be a violation. So I don't see any difference now that it's a junction box.
Steve
electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: Junction Box Question
I am with Steve here. Cover should be secured with bolts or screws.
I am with Steve here. Cover should be secured with bolts or screws.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Junction Box Question
Generally the quick fix is to use a couple tek screws to attach the latch side of the door to the panel cover.
Generally the quick fix is to use a couple tek screws to attach the latch side of the door to the panel cover.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Junction Box Question
A second thought, for the really old service center designs that hinge the cover itself on the box, using a single tek screw through the lip of the cover (on the latch side) into the side wall of the box does the trick.
A second thought, for the really old service center designs that hinge the cover itself on the box, using a single tek screw through the lip of the cover (on the latch side) into the side wall of the box does the trick.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Junction Box Question
Your in a danger zone anyways.Your now using a panel as a j box which it never was listed for so at least screw it it shut
Your in a danger zone anyways.Your now using a panel as a j box which it never was listed for so at least screw it it shut
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: Junction Box Question
I don't see why the closed hinged cover wouldn't suffice. Disconnect switches and hinged cover junction boxes do not have screws keeping them shut. Besides why would a box containing insulated conductors and insulated splices be unsafe?
One difference is that as a junction box the old panel backbox wouldn't contain any uninsulated live parts.
I don't see why the closed hinged cover wouldn't suffice. Disconnect switches and hinged cover junction boxes do not have screws keeping them shut. Besides why would a box containing insulated conductors and insulated splices be unsafe?
Re: Junction Box Question
[/QUOTE]One difference is that as a junction box the old panel backbox wouldn't contain any uninsulated live parts.
I don't see why the closed hinged cover wouldn't suffice. Disconnect switches and hinged cover junction boxes do not have screws keeping them shut. Besides why would a box containing insulated conductors and insulated splices be unsafe? [/QB][/QUOTE]
I work at a chemical company's r&d facility so i don't know much about residential but all of our disconnects have interlocks to keep them shut and as far as panels the conductors are protected by screw on covers with a door. although the splices are insulated it would seem too easy of an access to the splices
i think i would screw the door shut if i used it at all.
[/QUOTE]One difference is that as a junction box the old panel backbox wouldn't contain any uninsulated live parts.
I don't see why the closed hinged cover wouldn't suffice. Disconnect switches and hinged cover junction boxes do not have screws keeping them shut. Besides why would a box containing insulated conductors and insulated splices be unsafe? [/QB][/QUOTE]
I work at a chemical company's r&d facility so i don't know much about residential but all of our disconnects have interlocks to keep them shut and as far as panels the conductors are protected by screw on covers with a door. although the splices are insulated it would seem too easy of an access to the splices
i think i would screw the door shut if i used it at all.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Junction Box Question
Actually the enclosure for "panels" has to comply with article 312.
Take a look at 312.8 and you will see that these enclosures can under the proper circumstances be used as junction boxes.
I do not see a problem with using the existing panel enclosure as a junction box as long as the panel(guts) are removed, and the cover is intact. I also do not see (in the NEC) where a cover has to be placed with screws.
Actually the enclosure for "panels" has to comply with article 312.
Take a look at 312.8 and you will see that these enclosures can under the proper circumstances be used as junction boxes.
I do not see a problem with using the existing panel enclosure as a junction box as long as the panel(guts) are removed, and the cover is intact. I also do not see (in the NEC) where a cover has to be placed with screws.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Junction Box Question
The removal of the guts of the panel is what generally creates the situation that is most quickly and economically fixed with a few tek screws.
The removal of the guts leaves an opening in the cover that has to be closed in some manner, 2005 408.7 (although one might argue that 408.7 doesn't specifically list "fuses", and therefore, that it doesn't apply).
In my jurisdiction, one can fashion a filler plate for the old fuse center OCPD opening, but it is a custom fabrication that takes time. Screwing down the panel cover door (the door hinged to the cover that gave access to the fuses) is an "approved means."
The old black painted steel panels, that usually only had 30 Amp services in them, and that had covers (hinged to the panel itself) that were one solid unbroken sheet of steel, are acceptable as is with only the original latch securing the cover in place.
There are also a whole raft of mid 20th century fuse centers that had a removeable dead front placed over the OCPDs which was, in turn, closed behind a hinged panel cover made of one unbroken sheet of steel. After removal of the dead front and the OCPD guts, the hinged cover is acceptable (again, in my jurisdiction of MN) as is without additional screws.
The removal of the guts of the panel is what generally creates the situation that is most quickly and economically fixed with a few tek screws.
The removal of the guts leaves an opening in the cover that has to be closed in some manner, 2005 408.7 (although one might argue that 408.7 doesn't specifically list "fuses", and therefore, that it doesn't apply).
In my jurisdiction, one can fashion a filler plate for the old fuse center OCPD opening, but it is a custom fabrication that takes time. Screwing down the panel cover door (the door hinged to the cover that gave access to the fuses) is an "approved means."
The old black painted steel panels, that usually only had 30 Amp services in them, and that had covers (hinged to the panel itself) that were one solid unbroken sheet of steel, are acceptable as is with only the original latch securing the cover in place.
There are also a whole raft of mid 20th century fuse centers that had a removeable dead front placed over the OCPDs which was, in turn, closed behind a hinged panel cover made of one unbroken sheet of steel. After removal of the dead front and the OCPD guts, the hinged cover is acceptable (again, in my jurisdiction of MN) as is without additional screws.
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