Junction/pull box required to be bonded?

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lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
I have a friendly bet going on with another PE...


Case: Metallic box has two metallic conduits coming into it. 120VAC power (one current carrying and one grounded) is routed through box continuously, no splices. A grounding conductor is routed through each conduit and comes into box and is connected to the other grounding conductor with a wire nut.

I say that the box needs to be bonded.

He says the box need not be bonded because its already bonded via conduit. I agree, but I think the code requires a bonding jumper...I just can't find it.


If this box was abandoned (and not connected) equipment, lets say a disconnect ... would that change anything?

Thanks,
Jason
 
How about this:

250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment
Grounding Conductors to Boxes. Where circuit conductors
are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment
within or supported by a box, any equipment grounding conductor(
s) associated with those circuit conductors shall be connected
within the box or to the box with devices suitable for
the use in accordance with 250.148(A) through (E).

Dennis already posted while I was cut/pasting.
 
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jumper said:
How about this:

250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment
Grounding Conductors to Boxes. Where circuit conductors
are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment
within or supported by a box, any equipment grounding conductor(
s) associated with those circuit conductors shall be connected
within the box or to the box with devices suitable for
the use in accordance with 250.148(A) through (E).
Click to expand...

Gotcha this time. :grin:
 
lakee911 said:
Thanks! :)

Editted to add: He says the ground isn't a "circuit conductor." I don't see how it can't be. :-?
Click to expand...

Then ask him what it is according to him.;)

250.118 Types of Equipment Grounding Conductors.
The equipment grounding conductor run with or enclosing
the circuit conductors shall be one or more or a combination
of the following:

(1) A copper, aluminum, or copper-clad aluminum conductor.
This conductor shall be solid or stranded; insulated,
covered, or bare; and in the form of a wire or
a busbar of any shape.
 
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It normally is not a conductor but in a fault condition it is so you win.
Had he not spliced the ground he would been fine.
? why was the ground cut if the others were not ???
 
jumper said:
What is a circuit conductor?
Click to expand...

In my opinion circuit conductors are only the conductors required to complete the circuit under normal conditions.

If a raceway is used as the EGC would you call the raceway a circuit conductor?

Check this out, I think it shows the NFPA does not consider an EGC a circuit conductor.

300.3(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of
the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor
and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors
shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary
gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or
cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with
300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).
Click to expand...
 
iwire said:
In my opinion circuit conductors are only the conductors required to complete the circuit under normal conditions.
Click to expand...

So, I need a fault to call a EGC a circuit conductor.:-?

If a raceway is used as the EGC would you call the raceway a circuit conductor?
Click to expand...

No, I would just say it qualifies as one. (you know this better than I)

Check this out, I think it shows the NFPA does not consider an EGC a circuit conductor.
Click to expand...

I gotta think about this for a sec.
 
jumper said:
I gotta think about this for a sec.
Click to expand...

How about this one ...

110.10 Circuit Impedance and Other Characteristics.
The overcurrent protective devices, the total impedance, the
component short-circuit current ratings, and other characteristics
of the circuit to be protected shall be selected and
coordinated to permit the circuit-protective devices used to
clear a fault to do so without extensive damage to the electrical
components of the circuit. This fault shall be assumed
to be either between two or more of the circuit conductors
or between any circuit conductor and the grounding conductor
or enclosing metal raceway. Listed products applied
in accordance with their listing shall be considered to meet
the requirements of this section.
Click to expand...
 
jumper said:
Then ask him what it is according to him.;)
Click to expand...

I think you answered that question right here.

jumper said:
250.118 Types of Equipment Grounding Conductors.
The equipment grounding conductor run with or enclosing
the circuit conductors shall be one or more or a combination
of the following:

(1) A copper, aluminum, or copper-clad aluminum conductor.
This conductor shall be solid or stranded; insulated,
covered, or bare; and in the form of a wire or
a busbar of any shape.
Click to expand...

The EGC is a conductor that "runs with" or "encloses" the circuit conductors. But it is not itself, a circuit conductor.

iwire said:
I think 'he' is right, the EGC is not a circuit conductor.
Click to expand...

I agree with 'him' and with Bob, the EGC is not a circuit conductor.
 
Well as long as I am getting killed here :))) I might as well add this and shoot myself in the foot.:grin:

Branch Circuit. The circuit conductors between the final
overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet(s).

Oy vay. The NEC is a pain.

I concede, thanks gentleman.
 
Well the metal pipe coming into and out of the box is considered a grounding conductor is it not? If that is the case, why would you need to bond the EGC to the box?
 
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