KARMA....let me vent please

[ritelec]

Possible costumer.
I hooked up with leads supplied from a internet company (cost contractor money for the lead.........of people "thinking" of things but..)

Some gentleman spun my wheels (besides the lead fee from the internet company and time, gas, wear tear on the truck) for the free estimate.......................

Long story short.

Attic gable ventilator install.( louver reframing etc..)(fan/louver by customer)

Spinning wheels with me and 2 other electricians (of his two other electric quotes ....which was install attic vent/system, and I was still double what they quoted) ....... he called me back........researching further possibilities with him, I continued.............

Some gent (handyman) decides he can put a roof vent (materials and labor including fan for a fraction of the price) for the customer..........is he insured to open a roof and do the electrical work ??? Is he qualified and insured for electrical work and roofing....doubt it.

As not to create bad Karma, I will not notify the borough hall........if nothing goes wrong good for them.....if something does...good for them..I will not turn them in......

Thank you for letting me vent....


He said he would call in the future if anything comes up and appreciated my time........??? Think I will answer the phone? NOT!

Thank you.



Happy Friday.

 

[jeremysterling]

Really. If my job involved pulling coax through residential attics, I would not bother the HO with details like, "It's way too hot in your attic, you should call an electrician to ventilate your attic before I can hook up your HD."

Sorry your time got wasted.

 

[kwired]

Please don't tell me this is the first time you had something like that happen.

Also please don't tell me you have never opted to purchase goods or services from the lower priced merchant for whatever reason.

There is a chance the HO and you would not have seen eye to eye on certain issues and you may be thankful he got someone else to do this job. He would have wanted cheap, all the way, maybe even want to purchase supplies for you, because they might cost less - then not get what is needed, wasting more of your time than if you handled all of that yourself, he might even think he is going to tell you how you should do it - down to details he really doesn't know anything about.

With today's AFCI, GFCI, and TR and WR requirements - I pretty much discourage owners from purchasing material, and I am not going to run around getting the right stuff at my own expense when I could be out making money on a job for a customer that is not a PITA.

 

[George Stolz]

Please don't tell me this is the first time you had something like that happen.

No kidding - I have been run down the rabbit trail a lot farther for zero results. Specs call for a job run in EMT and MC in exposed ceilings. My bid comes in at 200% of the low bid. I suggested using romex, bid it again, and still came in above the original low bid. It is what it is.

Yesterday I heard a story about 300 hours down the toilet, designing a huge job for a customer and not getting the bid over $1,500 on a $1+ million dollar job.

Getting all worked up over a missed attic fan? Wait for the big one to sink before your eyes, that was nothing.

 

[ritelec]

Thank you for grounding me.

Yes I've been there several times..........Still burns me though, and I was "venting".

Rich

 

[Fulthrotl]

Thank you for grounding me.

Yes I've been there several times..........Still burns me though, and I was "venting".

Rich

well, we all have things that happen that are sub optimal.

experience has taught me that whatever is happening to me,
REGARDLESS OF HOW IT APPEARS AT THE TIME.....

is in my best interests.

i could go on with a long winded description of a situation,
with blocking and camera angles, and four part harmony,
to show how in the final analysis, it worked out to my
advantage, but i like you, so i won't do that to you.

my experience has been, that overall, i lead a charmed life.

i used to get really annoyed at people who it seemed could
fall in a pile of chit, and end up with a $100 bill stuck to the
palm of their hand when they got up. until i realized that on
so many levels i'd done much better than that.

my own personal dilemma is that i get to live this charmed
life mostly unaware of it, periodically seething in resentment
over real or imagined injuries or insults i have supposedly suffered.

in the last month, i've had a customer go awol, with
the job 75% done, and still owing me $9k.

two days ago, i spent two hours sitting in a customers living
room, with a hair dryer, drying a fireplace hearth, then
walking away from a days work of $2,000.

i am far more appreciative for the things i haven't gotten than
for the things i have.

the soldier on the battlefield never hears the round that kills him.
be grateful for the whistle of the ricochet that goes past your ear.

 

[ritelec]

Thank you .:happyyes:

 

[rt66electric]

Hear it coming>>>>

Hear it coming>>>>

I can ususally smell this one over the phone line.

Be honest with people you dont know over the phone... My over the phone price is.... if I show up it will be $XX.xx to get out of my truck
If you are ready, I will do the job then. If not I have to work for a living every day. Yes you can find someone else-cheaper.
These people have more 'time' than 'money'.
It is best to work for people that have more 'money' than 'time'.


I have done a few 2-hour jobs that takes 3-more hours to get paid. I do not get upset, I smile and charge them a more appropreate amount next time, or put them on the "I get get there next week" list the next time the call.

I have also gave a peason a buddy-buddy price, then, he gave me a "send/mail the bill to...." his ex-wifes accountant. I added a $50 mailling fee, and they never noticed.

 

[jeremysterling]

Thank you for grounding me.

Yes I've been there several times..........Still burns me though, and I was "venting".

Rich

"let me vent please"

Ha! Ha! LOL:slaphead:

 

[renosteinke]

Welcome to my world.

No doubt that, as a contractor, it can get you down. That's probably why I've had some troubles getting contractors to help with my house remodel; they're all burnt out over fruitless sales calls and decent jobs that get trimmed to a nuisance level.

That MIGHT change. Maybe. At least, regarding me as a potential customer.

Why? Because the other day I had my first significant expense when I hired a guy to replace my roof. I had spoken with him a year ago. He still had his doubts. Only when the job was complete and he was paid did he really accept that I just might not be a CUSStomer.

I've been looking for a framer, a concrete guy, and someone to help with some demolition (stripping drywall and removing a small 'bump out' addition). Amazingly enough, I'm suddenly having guys show up and offer me quotes.

So, what can we do to reduce the misunderstandings we have with customers?

Well, the first is to make it easy for them to find you. If you do cement work, that's what the customer will look for - and not something fancy like 'civil engineering.'

Next, we need to educate customers. They need to see where the money goes, and appreciate the skills that come with your crew.

On other forums, I have been dissecting my roofing bid, so consumers can see why the job cost what it did. Lay it out properly, and the customer will be reassured that they're not being taked advantage of. They need to understand, deep in their bones, that $125/hr isn't a very good way to look at things, as they're buying far more than just your labor.

We need to stress, ahead of time, why competing quotes are not a good way to do things - despite what all the 'consumer experts' preach. In the case of my roof, that quote included all manner of stuff that was not spelled out .... little things like running a magnet over the drive to catch any nails, and larger items that others might have tried to add on as an 'unexpected extra.'

Looking closer at the roof job, there was some rotten wood that was replaced. The inspection didn't find it, and the quote didn't mention it. The guy came prepared anyway, made the repairs, and did not try to charge extra. Others might have tried for an extra charge, or might have just shingled over it. Maybe his "high" price wasn't so high after all.

 

[kwired]

Looking closer at the roof job, there was some rotten wood that was replaced. The inspection didn't find it, and the quote didn't mention it. The guy came prepared anyway, made the repairs, and did not try to charge extra. Others might have tried for an extra charge, or might have just shingled over it. Maybe his "high" price wasn't so high after all.

Now back to those customers that are a real pain to work for. If the roofing contractor tells them he will fix rotten roof sheathing at no extra cost as needed, that sounds like good deal for customer, and is. But when a PITA customer finds out that no additional repairs were necessarry they are the ones that will seek a discount, as well as disect every other aspect of the job.

There are people out there that expect the roofer to account for every roofing nail that was included in the cost and if he can't then they will try to get some money back. Then they wonder why they have such a hard time getting contractors to do work for them.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Now back to those customers that are a real pain to work for. If the roofing contractor tells them he will fix rotten roof sheathing at no extra cost as needed, that sounds like good deal for customer, and is. But when a PITA customer finds out that no additional repairs were necessarry they are the ones that will seek a discount, as well as disect every other aspect of the job.

There are people out there that expect the roofer to account for every roofing nail that was included in the cost and if he can't then they will try to get some money back. Then they wonder why they have such a hard time getting contractors to do work for them.

two words:

flat rate.




and how flat that rate is largely depends on how it goes when i talk to them....

the rate may be flat, but that flat surface can become a steeply inclined plane,
depending on attitude.

and after quoting a flat rate last week, 20 minutes into arriving at the house,
before work had commenced, i realized that doing ANYTHING there would be
a HUGE mistake.

wrote a check for the deposit back to them, and walked away. thank god i had
not cut any holes yet. as it was, i spent 2 hours with a hair dryer, drying the
water spot off the marble fireplace hearth, while listening to the homeowner
catalogue every sin and error of everyone who had ever worked on her house, ever.

 

[wolfman56]

I just gotta ask. Did you spill something on the hearth? I remember once getting yelled at because I put a hand on a stainless steel fireplace. Some people are way too touchy about their things.

The last job I quit during the first day was a T&M (never again) job that was being GC'd by the homeowner. I went to get parts at noon and went through the drive up at the Burger King by the supply house, and ate while driving. She saw the bag and said that a half hour would be deducted from my bill. I didn't argue with her, its pointless, I told her to get someone else.

RW

 

[kwired]

two words:

flat rate.




and how flat that rate is largely depends on how it goes when i talk to them....

the rate may be flat, but that flat surface can become a steeply inclined plane,
depending on attitude.

and after quoting a flat rate last week, 20 minutes into arriving at the house,
before work had commenced, i realized that doing ANYTHING there would be
a HUGE mistake.

wrote a check for the deposit back to them, and walked away. thank god i had
not cut any holes yet. as it was, i spent 2 hours with a hair dryer, drying the
water spot off the marble fireplace hearth, while listening to the homeowner
catalogue every sin and error of everyone who had ever worked on her house, ever.

I agree with the flat rate, but there are still customers that will make life hell and are not worth working for ever again, no matter how much profit may be made from them. If you are having troubles after being on job for only 20 minutes that is the time to bail, even if it cost you a little.

I just gotta ask. Did you spill something on the hearth? I remember once getting yelled at because I put a hand on a stainless steel fireplace. Some people are way too touchy about their things.

The last job I quit during the first day was a T&M (never again) job that was being GC'd by the homeowner. I went to get parts at noon and went through the drive up at the Burger King by the supply house, and ate while driving. She saw the bag and said that a half hour would be deducted from my bill. I didn't argue with her, its pointless, I told her to get someone else.

RW

This woman would not have been happy to even see you take 5 minutes to use the restroom unless she knew it was deducted from the billable time, even though you likely will work more efficiently if you are not trying to hold it all day and 5 minutes for relief could make up for 30 minutes wasted time because you did not take the five. She did not even know if she would be billed for that time in the first place I'm guessing. Women are the worst people to work for sometimes, especially if they have an education and a good job or some position of power, my wife will even back me up on that one. She would much rather have a male supervisor or boss than a female based on jobs she has had in the past - it is just how many women generally are for some reason. She even hates to work for a female chairperson at a volunteer organization or event - it is a control issue most of the time.

 

[gadfly56]

I've been that customer (a little) every once in a while. A/C quit in the Saturn and the mechanic quoted $1,200 to fix it last fall. I figured winter was coming and I could wait it out. Too hot this summer, so while having the timing chain fixed I asked the price again, since I couldn't recall. Well it was still $1,200. I asked if there was any chance he'd provide the labor if I could find the compressor, and I was a little surprised when he said "Sure." My parts at "X" his labor at $417. It was a good labor price. The more I thought about it though, the more leary I was. If something bought the farm, was it my parts or his labor? I decided that there was too much chance of finding the worst of both worlds outcome, and in the end I'd probably pay for it. Turns out another shop was able to do the job for his labor cost plus my parts cost, and I got a full warranty. And no, I didn't give the first guy a "last look". I won't play that game, trying to beat someone down with someone else's price. But next time, he may sharpen his estimating pencil a bit.

 

[kwired]

I've been that customer (a little) every once in a while. A/C quit in the Saturn and the mechanic quoted $1,200 to fix it last fall. I figured winter was coming and I could wait it out. Too hot this summer, so while having the timing chain fixed I asked the price again, since I couldn't recall. Well it was still $1,200. I asked if there was any chance he'd provide the labor if I could find the compressor, and I was a little surprised when he said "Sure." My parts at "X" his labor at $417. It was a good labor price. The more I thought about it though, the more leary I was. If something bought the farm, was it my parts or his labor? I decided that there was too much chance of finding the worst of both worlds outcome, and in the end I'd probably pay for it. Turns out another shop was able to do the job for his labor cost plus my parts cost, and I got a full warranty. And no, I didn't give the first guy a "last look". I won't play that game, trying to beat someone down with someone else's price. But next time, he may sharpen his estimating pencil a bit.

It is a game played consumers, and most of us have done so in some way at some time. Some places it is kind of expected to haggle price like when buying used cars, or really anything used, furniture and appliances are another place where deals are made on a regular basis. Was 20/20 one time last winter and they had a guy that lived for getting things free, reduced, or bartered other items sometimes. He even went into a donut shop and would get a free donut by sweet talking the staff, and eventually his payment for the donut was to sing a song or recite a poem or something like that. You can go to any retail store and make them an offer for an item that is different than what they are asking - nothing illegal about it, just doesn't happen all that often except at the places where it is more of the norm to negotiate prices. They may not accept the offer, but you can make it. They may also make a counter offer and eventually negotiate a price.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I just gotta ask. Did you spill something on the hearth? I remember once getting yelled at because I put a hand on a stainless steel fireplace. Some people are way too touchy about their things.

i had a jack in the box cup with ice and a refreshing beverage in it...
i sat it down on the corner of the marble hearth, not realizing it wasn't sealed.
so it sweated. took all of five minutes.

the water on the marble was condensed from atmosphere,
so it didn't have anything in it to stain or etch. just pure water.
sat there drying it with a blow dryer till the hearth was nice and toasty,
and the water was gone.

and then so was i.....

 

[readydave8]

i had a jack in the box cup with ice and a refreshing beverage in it...
i sat it down on the corner of the marble hearth, not realizing it wasn't sealed.
so it sweated. took all of five minutes.

the water on the marble was condensed from atmosphere,
so it didn't have anything in it to stain or etch. just pure water.
sat there drying it with a blow dryer till the hearth was nice and toasty,
and the water was gone.

and then so was i.....

We all have been to houses where shoes, no matter how clean, are thought to damage hardwood floor,

So at one job I told the carpenter I wouldn't have floors in my house too delicate to walk on,

He said something about the rare wood used and compared it to furniture, asked me if I would stand on dining room table with shoes on,

I said of course, how else am I gonna change the lite bulb?

So I'm glad I don't have such a delicate hearth in my house.

 

[kwired]

We all have been to houses where shoes, no matter how clean, are thought to damage hardwood floor,

So at one job I told the carpenter I wouldn't have floors in my house too delicate to walk on,

He said something about the rare wood used and compared it to furniture, asked me if I would stand on dining room table with shoes on,

I said of course, how else am I gonna change the lite bulb?

So I'm glad I don't have such a delicate hearth in my house.

My thoughts on things like this is why spend so much money on something you can't use? I like to live in my home not live in a museum where you are trying to preserve everything. If something wears out that means it got some use, and hopefully was a pleasant experience for the users, now it needs replaced:happyyes:

 

[bullheimer]

i had a gal just lay into me about wasting her time because i was an hour late, it was a service change estimate! i still told her to pound sand.

i had a "loyal customer" have me come over to wire a trailer his son could live in. talked me down to $65/hr instead of my usual $75. i had wired a one room apt above a barn for him once, it was for about $500 to rough in and a couple hun to trim out, last year this.

as i walk up to the trailer the plumb-bob says i must be one of those XXXXX electric boys. i said No, why? he said because they had a crew of guys rewiring my customers other house down the street. i jacked him up about it when he came back with some wire and he said he didnt even ask me because he 'thought i was too small'.. i packed all my tools and told him not to ever call me again. ps..he is a multi millionaire. a.h.!

i could go on forever with people who had me tell them how i would do something and ended up them doing it themselves. its part of being in biz. thats why i dont get into specifics anymore, lesson learned.

btw, i totally agree with the Flat Rate thing. i bill for worst case scenario, then I get the fruits of any saved labor. and as for wood floors? if i have to take them off for a customer that's one thing. but they are put on the floor for ONE REASON and that is to WALK ON THEM.