Kitchen Electrical Design Opinions

[rnatalie]

I'm confused by your marking the switches AFCI. I've never seen an AFCI switch, and the use of AFCI receptacles is restricted. Are you just indicating that the circuit is protected by an AFCI breaker? Your GFI markings are inconsistent as well. Note that the UC receptacle for the mixer in the island probably is close enough to the prep sink to require it to be GFCI protected as well.

If I understand your nomenclature, you have receptacles in the "enclosed porch" walls that share a circuit with the penninsula receptacles. This is not allowed.

Some notes that are distinct from code issues:
I like to put the receptacle for the dishwasher under the sink if you're using the plug as the service disconnect. It's a pain to have to completely pull out the dishwasher to disconnect it.

You show a gas range with a 30A receptacle. Is this a dual thing (gas cooktop/electric oven? Then that makes some sense. If it's all gas, you may need a smaller circuit to run the few electric gizmos (clock, igniters). If you're trying to future proof things, you may want to at least run the conductors for 50A, in case a future electric range is installed.

 

[James L]

Here's something a bit more symmetrical. and a really good amount of light, especially if you use 1,000-1,200 lumen can trims.

6 cans × 1,200 = 7,200
6 gimbals × 500 = 3,000
2 pendants × 650 = 1,300
Total = 11,500

Plus 4,800 lumens in the porch area

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Integrated-LED-5-in-or-6-in-120-Watt-EQ-White-Round-Dimmable-Recessed-DownLight/1001819026

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Canless-Gimbal-Color-Choice-Integrated-LED-3-in-45-Watt-EQ-White-Round-Dimmable-Canless-Recessed-DownLight/1001772072?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-lit-_-google-_-lia-_-143-_-recessedlighting-_-1001772072-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=CjwKCAiA_eb-BRB2EiwAGBnXXtE0RyGoVVzwK4q3tIZJkMpLV6-ypsM-4DmcIpK4jxBl0Iz7qfsV0BoCmDwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[FlComm]

I'm confused by your marking the switches AFCI. I've never seen an AFCI switch, and the use of AFCI receptacles is restricted. Are you just indicating that the circuit is protected by an AFCI breaker? Your GFI markings are inconsistent as well. Note that the UC receptacle for the mixer in the island probably is close enough to the prep sink to require it to be GFCI protected as well.

If I understand your nomenclature, you have receptacles in the "enclosed porch" walls that share a circuit with the penninsula receptacles. This is not allowed.

Some notes that are distinct from code issues:
I like to put the receptacle for the dishwasher under the sink if you're using the plug as the service disconnect. It's a pain to have to completely pull out the dishwasher to disconnect it.

You show a gas range with a 30A receptacle. Is this a dual thing (gas cooktop/electric oven? Then that makes some sense. If it's all gas, you may need a smaller circuit to run the few electric gizmos (clock, igniters). If you're trying to future proof things, you may want to at least run the conductors for 50A, in case a future electric range is installed.

The way I have the outlets is by default ALL circuits are AFCI & GFI protected. If there is a subscript then that particular circuit is only what the subscript calls for-AFCI or GFI
The naming “enclosed porch” is left from the existing layout. In the new design I think it will qualify as kitchen space since there is not a wall separating the space and the main sink is a peninsula with a sitting/ eating bar into that area.
The DW is a Plug cord so my plan is to share a receptacle under the sink with the disposal
The stove is a dual range and spec has it at 21 amp draw which is why I’ve got just a 30 amp circuit. I know there is no way we will ever swap this unit out for another in our time living here so I don’t want to add the expense of upping the circuit. It may not be a lot as a single item but to the overall budget it makes a difference.

Here's something a bit more symmetrical. and a really good amount of light, especially if you use 1,000-1,200 lumen can trims.

6 cans × 1,200 = 7,200
6 gimbals × 500 = 3,000
2 pendants × 650 = 1,300
Total = 11,500

Plus 4,800 lumens in the porch area

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Integrated-LED-5-in-or-6-in-120-Watt-EQ-White-Round-Dimmable-Recessed-DownLight/1001819026

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Canless-Gimbal-Color-Choice-Integrated-LED-3-in-45-Watt-EQ-White-Round-Dimmable-Canless-Recessed-DownLight/1001772072?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-lit-_-google-_-lia-_-143-_-recessedlighting-_-1001772072-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=CjwKCAiA_eb-BRB2EiwAGBnXXtE0RyGoVVzwK4q3tIZJkMpLV6-ypsM-4DmcIpK4jxBl0Iz7qfsV0BoCmDwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

This is beyond helpful James. I’m going to print this off and research your light links I can’t get to my pc until tomorrow due to fresh concrete so I hope to get drawings finally updated then and have 1 last review before finalizing and start wiring
Really appreciate your time and input on these lights as I was a fish out of water on this piece of the project

 

[suemarkp]

The stove is a dual range and spec has it at 21 amp draw which is why I’ve got just a 30 amp circuit. I know there is no way we will ever swap this unit out for another in our time living here so I don’t want to add the expense of upping the circuit. It may not be a lot as a single item but to the overall budget it makes a difference.

I would at least consider running 8-3 for the stove if there is the possibility of some future owner putting a range or oven + cooktop there. That will allow a 40A DP breaker which works for most electric ranges. You could use a 30A and just cap off the unused wire.

 

[rnatalie]

The way I have the outlets is by default ALL circuits are AFCI & GFI protected. If there is a subscript then that particular circuit is only what the subscript calls for-AFCI or GFI

OK, that makes sense.

The naming “enclosed porch” is left from the existing layout. In the new design I think it will qualify as kitchen space since there is not a wall separating the space and the main sink is a peninsula with a sitting/ eating bar into that ar

That's not a criteria around here, but if you call it a dining room or breakfast nook, that would suffice.

The DW is a Plug cord so my plan is to share a receptacle under the sink with the disposal

Yes, that was what I was suggesting, but your plan looked like it was behind the dishwasher.

The stove is a dual range and spec has it at 21 amp draw which is why I’ve got just a 30 amp circuit. I know there is no way we will ever swap this unit out for another in our time living here so I don’t want to add the expense of upping the circuit. It may not be a lot as a single item but to the overall budget it makes a difference.

Fine, dual-range was what I was guessing, just wanted to make sure.[/QUOTE]

 

[James L]

I hope to get drawings finally updated then and have 1 last review before finalizing and start wiring

Here's what I would suggest for under cabinet/shelf led lights. I've used this brand before. UL listed, high CRI. 3 watts per foot, almost 300 lumens per foot, nice and bright...

https://smile.amazon.com/HitLights-Neutral-Premium-3528-16-4-UL-Listed/dp/B01A79H03S/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=UL+led+strip&qid=1608227856&sr=8-5

Here's a good driver. I've used this brand quite a bit. They're nice because they can be loaded to 100% whereas most I've seen are good only to about 80%...

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FFSXW2T/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_5?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

 

[FlComm]

OK, that makes sense.

That's not a criteria around here, but if you call it a dining room or breakfast nook, that would suffice.

Yes, that was what I was suggesting, but your plan looked like it was behind the dishwasher.

The plan I uploaded did still have it as a separate outlet behind the DW so you were right to think what you did. I decided to combine them after my initial post and hadn't updated the drawing yet.


I’ve updated the drawing to reflect the suggested changes and recommendations along with the lighting design James L has been so kind to provide. Additionally some changes were made to reflect how we will use the space for daily life.
I did combine more of the lights onto the same circuits which based on draw should not be an issue I believe along with adding outlets for the gimbals from James’ design
My wife is not sold on the under shelf lighting so not sure if that will happen or not. Although she feels pretty sure about not having them so it’s unlikely I also am sticking with the 30 amp oven outlet. While I agree with the idea of planning ahead and that it’s “easier to do it now than later” I am gonna be selfish and do what I need while I’m living here and let the next resident figure it out. Hell by that time who knows what code will require anyways so it may not matter

hopefully this is a final design but as always I’m open to additional thoughts or suggestions

thanks everyone for all of your inputs and time reviewing and replying

 

[FlComm]

The plan I uploaded did still have it as a separate outlet behind the DW so you were right to think what you did. I decided to combine them after my initial post and hadn't updated the drawing yet.


I’ve updated the drawing to reflect the suggested changes and recommendations along with the lighting design James L has been so kind to provide. Additionally some changes were made to reflect how we will use the space for daily life.
I did combine more of the lights onto the same circuits which based on draw should not be an issue I believe along with adding outlets for the gimbals from James’ design
My wife is not sold on the under shelf lighting so not sure if that will happen or not. Although she feels pretty sure about not having them so it’s unlikely I also am sticking with the 30 amp oven outlet. While I agree with the idea of planning ahead and that it’s “easier to do it now than later” I am gonna be selfish and do what I need while I’m living here and let the next resident figure it out. Hell by that time who knows what code will require anyways so it may not matter

hopefully this is a final design but as always I’m open to additional thoughts or suggestions

thanks everyone for all of your inputs and time reviewing and replying

 

[FlComm]

As part of this project I have to transition NM-B to THHN to feed the island outlets and switches and I'm working through the best options.
I dont see anything that does but is there any code that restricts the use of a metal wire duct to serve as the junction point to transition in the attic?
The thought is to mount a 4" x 4" x 2' section of it to the trusses well above the insulation to use as the splice box for my transitions. NM-B coming in and the THHN piped back out to the island.
Once in the island, I'm thinking of another wireway or maybe a junction box mounted on the backside of a cabinet with the screw cover flush to the back of the cabinet interior. Will this comply?

 

[mikeames]

You can do that, but you can use any box to transition. A 4 square or "1900" box would do. You could also transition to MC instead of EMT. Why do you need to transition back in the island? What is your intent? Why transition at all? Brin the NM up under the island, and sleeve it for protection. Some use ENT.

 

[James L]

I agree with @mikeames you can just bring NM - B into the island and sleeve it.

Some guys like to sit a 1900 box in the basement, and bring MC cable up into the island.

1/2 inch metal flex works also

 

[FlComm]

This is a slab on grade foundation so the 1" conduit feeding the island is underslab and has to be transitioned. Since there is only a single 1" conduit to the island I need somewhere to either transition back to NM-B or flex to each box.

Edit: Sorry for not mentioning this in my first post-would have made it easier to clarify

 

[mikeames]

This is a slab on grade foundation so the 1" conduit feeding the island is underslab and has to be transitioned. Since there is only a single 1" conduit to the island I need somewhere to either transition back to NM-B or flex to each box.

Edit: Sorry for not mentioning this in my first post-would have made it easier to clarify

I am confused. Why did you mention the atic? Where is the other end of this 1" EMT? Regardless, you could just set a box on top of the 1" conduit assuming you have the room. Also, I am not sure about all the circuits but if you run all the island circuits in this conduit be careful about ampacity adjustments. 310.15(B)(3)(a)

 

[LarryFine]

I would suggest a junction box with blank plate inside any nearby pantry or closet.

Remember that any wiring in the slab must be wet-rated.

 

[FlComm]

This is a single story slab on grade house so the attic is the primary wire route and why I am looking to put make the transition in the attic.My panel is located in the garage so from there I am running NM-B through the attic to the location that the 1" PVC conduit which feeds the island comes up the wall and enters the attic. At that point I need to transition to THHN since NM-B is not allowed in conduit or underslab.

The attic has 6' of headroom so while it's not an enjoyable space it is not terrible to work in.

 

[FlComm]

I would suggest a junction box with blank plate inside any nearby pantry or closet.

Remember that any wiring in the slab must be wet-rated.

With the design there really isn't a pantry or closet nearby that isn't going away in some fashion as part of the overall remodel.

No Doubt. It will all be THHN-W.

 

[James L]

With the design there really isn't a pantry or closet nearby that isn't going away in some fashion as part of the overall remodel.

No Doubt. It will all be THHN-W.

I haven't looked back through the thread, but it seems I remember you were going to have quite a bit of stuff in your Island. Do you have a place to set a shallow 6 x 6 or 8 x 8 J-box in the Attic?

Honestly, I think you'll have more issues transitioning out of your 1 inch pipe in the island

 

[mikeames]

.... I remember you were going to have quite a bit of stuff in your Island........

Honestly, I think you'll have more issues transitioning out of your 1 inch pipe in the island

I agree and there is definitely more than 4 current carrying conductors. 2- Switch legs and 3 circuits for receptacles all in one conduit will need adjustment.

 

[FlComm]

I agree and am concerned with pipe fill but at this point, I have what I have so hopefully it will work with the 1" in place. I have (3) 20 amp outlet circuits and (1) 15 amp light circuit and plan to share a 12awg ground between them to try and reduce conductor count.
Worst case there is another 3/4" conduit however it currently lands outside of the toe kick yet under the cabinet so if it comes to it I could always chip out the concrete and extend that 3/4" the 6" to be under the toe kick area. Really don't want to do that but it is a last resort option.

This is where when it is your own house it becomes tempting to push things beyond what you would normally do on a project.

 

[mikeames]

After putting more effort into this I think its ok. IF you have 9 current carrying conductors then your ampacity adjustment is 70%

Even if you used all #10AWG you could get 8 conductus in the 1" EMT.
You can put 9 12awg conductors in.

So I think you will be ok.